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  • Nagging As A Strategy For Better Linking: -z guidance

    - by user9154181
    The link-editor (ld) in Solaris 11 has a new feature that we call guidance that is intended to help you build better objects. The basic idea behind guidance is that if (and only if) you request it, the link-editor will issue messages suggesting better options and other changes you might make to your ld command to get better results. You can choose to take the advice, or you can disable specific types of guidance while acting on others. In some ways, this works like an experienced friend leaning over your shoulder and giving you advice — you're free to take it or leave it as you see fit, but you get nudged to do a better job than you might have otherwise. We use guidance to build the core Solaris OS, and it has proven to be useful, both in improving our objects, and in making sure that regressions don't creep back in later. In this article, I'm going to describe the evolution in thinking and design that led to the implementation of the -z guidance option, as well as give a brief description of how it works. The guidance feature issues non-fatal warnings. However, experience shows that once developers get used to ignoring warnings, it is inevitable that real problems will be lost in the noise and ignored or missed. This is why we have a zero tolerance policy against build noise in the core Solaris OS. In order to get maximum benefit from -z guidance while maintaining this policy, I added the -z fatal-warnings option at the same time. Much of the material presented here is adapted from the arc case: PSARC 2010/312 Link-editor guidance The History Of Unfortunate Link-Editor Defaults The Solaris link-editor is one of the oldest Unix commands. It stands to reason that this would be true — in order to write an operating system, you need the ability to compile and link code. The original link-editor (ld) had defaults that made sense at the time. As new features were needed, command line option switches were added to let the user use them, while maintaining backward compatibility for those who didn't. Backward compatibility is always a concern in system design, but is particularly important in the case of the tool chain (compilers, linker, and related tools), since it is a basic building block for the entire system. Over the years, applications have grown in size and complexity. Important concepts like dynamic linking that didn't exist in the original Unix system were invented. Object file formats changed. In the case of System V Release 4 Unix derivatives like Solaris, the ELF (Extensible Linking Format) was adopted. Since then, the ELF system has evolved to provide tools needed to manage today's larger and more complex environments. Features such as lazy loading, and direct bindings have been added. In an ideal world, many of these options would be defaults, with rarely used options that allow the user to turn them off. However, the reality is exactly the reverse: For backward compatibility, these features are all options that must be explicitly turned on by the user. This has led to a situation in which most applications do not take advantage of the many improvements that have been made in linking over the last 20 years. If their code seems to link and run without issue, what motivation does a developer have to read a complex manpage, absorb the information provided, choose the features that matter for their application, and apply them? Experience shows that only the most motivated and diligent programmers will make that effort. We know that most programs would be improved if we could just get you to use the various whizzy features that we provide, but the defaults conspire against us. We have long wanted to do something to make it easier for our users to use the linkers more effectively. There have been many conversations over the years regarding this issue, and how to address it. They always break down along the following lines: Change ld Defaults Since the world would be a better place the newer ld features were the defaults, why not change things to make it so? This idea is simple, elegant, and impossible. Doing so would break a large number of existing applications, including those of ISVs, big customers, and a plethora of existing open source packages. In each case, the owner of that code may choose to follow our lead and fix their code, or they may view it as an invitation to reconsider their commitment to our platform. Backward compatibility, and our installed base of working software, is one of our greatest assets, and not something to be lightly put at risk. Breaking backward compatibility at this level of the system is likely to do more harm than good. But, it sure is tempting. New Link-Editor One might create a new linker command, not called 'ld', leaving the old command as it is. The new one could use the same code as ld, but would offer only modern options, with the proper defaults for features such as direct binding. The resulting link-editor would be a pleasure to use. However, the approach is doomed to niche status. There is a vast pile of exiting code in the world built around the existing ld command, that reaches back to the 1970's. ld use is embedded in large and unknown numbers of makefiles, and is used by name by compilers that execute it. A Unix link-editor that is not named ld will not find a majority audience no matter how good it might be. Finally, a new linker command will eventually cease to be new, and will accumulate its own burden of backward compatibility issues. An Option To Make ld Do The Right Things Automatically This line of reasoning is best summarized by a CR filed in 2005, entitled 6239804 make it easier for ld(1) to do what's best The idea is to have a '-z best' option that unchains ld from its backward compatibility commitment, and allows it to turn on the "best" set of features, as determined by the authors of ld. The specific set of features enabled by -z best would be subject to change over time, as requirements change. This idea is more realistic than the other two, but was never implemented because it has some important issues that we could never answer to our satisfaction: The -z best proposal assumes that the user can turn it on, and trust it to select good options without the user needing to be aware of the options being applied. This is a fallacy. Features such as direct bindings require the user to do some analysis to ensure that the resulting program will still operate properly. A user who is willing to do the work to verify that what -z best does will be OK for their application is capable of turning on those features directly, and therefore gains little added benefit from -z best. The intent is that when a user opts into -z best, that they understand that z best is subject to sometimes incompatible evolution. Experience teaches us that this won't work. People will use this feature, the meaning of -z best will change, code that used to build will fail, and then there will be complaints and demands to retract the change. When (not if) this occurs, we will of course defend our actions, and point at the disclaimer. We'll win some of those debates, and lose others. Ultimately, we'll end up with -z best2 (-z better), or other compromises, and our goal of simplifying the world will have failed. The -z best idea rolls up a set of features that may or may not be related to each other into a unit that must be taken wholesale, or not at all. It could be that only a subset of what it does is compatible with a given application, in which case the user is expected to abandon -z best and instead set the options that apply to their application directly. In doing so, they lose one of the benefits of -z best, that if you use it, future versions of ld may choose a different set of options, and automatically improve the object through the act of rebuilding it. I drew two conclusions from the above history: For a link-editor, backward compatibility is vital. If a given command line linked your application 10 years ago, you have every reason to expect that it will link today, assuming that the libraries you're linking against are still available and compatible with their previous interfaces. For an application of any size or complexity, there is no substitute for the work involved in examining the code and determining which linker options apply and which do not. These options are largely orthogonal to each other, and it can be reasonable not to use any or all of them, depending on the situation, even in modern applications. It is a mistake to tie them together. The idea for -z guidance came from consideration of these points. By decoupling the advice from the act of taking the advice, we can retain the good aspects of -z best while avoiding its pitfalls: -z guidance gives advice, but the decision to take that advice remains with the user who must evaluate its merit and make a decision to take it or not. As such, we are free to change the specific guidance given in future releases of ld, without breaking existing applications. The only fallout from this will be some new warnings in the build output, which can be ignored or dealt with at the user's convenience. It does not couple the various features given into a single "take it or leave it" option, meaning that there will never be a need to offer "-zguidance2", or other such variants as things change over time. Guidance has the potential to be our final word on this subject. The user is given the flexibility to disable specific categories of guidance without losing the benefit of others, including those that might be added to future versions of the system. Although -z fatal-warnings stands on its own as a useful feature, it is of particular interest in combination with -z guidance. Used together, the guidance turns from advice to hard requirement: The user must either make the suggested change, or explicitly reject the advice by specifying a guidance exception token, in order to get a build. This is valuable in environments with high coding standards. ld Command Line Options The guidance effort resulted in new link-editor options for guidance and for turning warnings into fatal errors. Before I reproduce that text here, I'd like to highlight the strategic decisions embedded in the guidance feature: In order to get guidance, you have to opt in. We hope you will opt in, and believe you'll get better objects if you do, but our default mode of operation will continue as it always has, with full backward compatibility, and without judgement. Guidance suggestions always offers specific advice, and not vague generalizations. You can disable some guidance without turning off the entire feature. When you get guidance warnings, you can choose to take the advice, or you can specify a keyword to disable guidance for just that category. This allows you to get guidance for things that are useful to you, without being bothered about things that you've already considered and dismissed. As the world changes, we will add new guidance to steer you in the right direction. All such new guidance will come with a keyword that let's you turn it off. In order to facilitate building your code on different versions of Solaris, we quietly ignore any guidance keywords we don't recognize, assuming that they are intended for newer versions of the link-editor. If you want to see what guidance tokens ld does and does not recognize on your system, you can use the ld debugging feature as follows: % ld -Dargs -z guidance=foo,nodefs debug: debug: Solaris Linkers: 5.11-1.2275 debug: debug: arg[1] option=-D: option-argument: args debug: arg[2] option=-z: option-argument: guidance=foo,nodefs debug: warning: unrecognized -z guidance item: foo The -z fatal-warning option is straightforward, and generally useful in environments with strict coding standards. Note that the GNU ld already had this feature, and we accept their option names as synonyms: -z fatal-warnings | nofatal-warnings --fatal-warnings | --no-fatal-warnings The -z fatal-warnings and the --fatal-warnings option cause the link-editor to treat warnings as fatal errors. The -z nofatal-warnings and the --no-fatal-warnings option cause the link-editor to treat warnings as non-fatal. This is the default behavior. The -z guidance option is defined as follows: -z guidance[=item1,item2,...] Provide guidance messages to suggest ld options that can improve the quality of the resulting object, or which are otherwise considered to be beneficial. The specific guidance offered is subject to change over time as the system evolves. Obsolete guidance offered by older versions of ld may be dropped in new versions. Similarly, new guidance may be added to new versions of ld. Guidance therefore always represents current best practices. It is possible to enable guidance, while preventing specific guidance messages, by providing a list of item tokens, representing the class of guidance to be suppressed. In this way, unwanted advice can be suppressed without losing the benefit of other guidance. Unrecognized item tokens are quietly ignored by ld, allowing a given ld command line to be executed on a variety of older or newer versions of Solaris. The guidance offered by the current version of ld, and the item tokens used to disable these messages, are as follows. Specify Required Dependencies Dynamic executables and shared objects should explicitly define all of the dependencies they require. Guidance recommends the use of the -z defs option, should any symbol references remain unsatisfied when building dynamic objects. This guidance can be disabled with -z guidance=nodefs. Do Not Specify Non-Required Dependencies Dynamic executables and shared objects should not define any dependencies that do not satisfy the symbol references made by the dynamic object. Guidance recommends that unused dependencies be removed. This guidance can be disabled with -z guidance=nounused. Lazy Loading Dependencies should be identified for lazy loading. Guidance recommends the use of the -z lazyload option should any dependency be processed before either a -z lazyload or -z nolazyload option is encountered. This guidance can be disabled with -z guidance=nolazyload. Direct Bindings Dependencies should be referenced with direct bindings. Guidance recommends the use of the -B direct, or -z direct options should any dependency be processed before either of these options, or the -z nodirect option is encountered. This guidance can be disabled with -z guidance=nodirect. Pure Text Segment Dynamic objects should not contain relocations to non-writable, allocable sections. Guidance recommends compiling objects with Position Independent Code (PIC) should any relocations against the text segment remain, and neither the -z textwarn or -z textoff options are encountered. This guidance can be disabled with -z guidance=notext. Mapfile Syntax All mapfiles should use the version 2 mapfile syntax. Guidance recommends the use of the version 2 syntax should any mapfiles be encountered that use the version 1 syntax. This guidance can be disabled with -z guidance=nomapfile. Library Search Path Inappropriate dependencies that are encountered by ld are quietly ignored. For example, a 32-bit dependency that is encountered when generating a 64-bit object is ignored. These dependencies can result from incorrect search path settings, such as supplying an incorrect -L option. Although benign, this dependency processing is wasteful, and might hide a build problem that should be solved. Guidance recommends the removal of any inappropriate dependencies. This guidance can be disabled with -z guidance=nolibpath. In addition, -z guidance=noall can be used to entirely disable the guidance feature. See Chapter 7, Link-Editor Quick Reference, in the Linker and Libraries Guide for more information on guidance and advice for building better objects. Example The following example demonstrates how the guidance feature is intended to work. We will build a shared object that has a variety of shortcomings: Does not specify all it's dependencies Specifies dependencies it does not use Does not use direct bindings Uses a version 1 mapfile Contains relocations to the readonly allocable text (not PIC) This scenario is sadly very common — many shared objects have one or more of these issues. % cat hello.c #include <stdio.h> #include <unistd.h> void hello(void) { printf("hello user %d\n", getpid()); } % cat mapfile.v1 # This version 1 mapfile will trigger a guidance message % cc hello.c -o hello.so -G -M mapfile.v1 -lelf As you can see, the operation completes without error, resulting in a usable object. However, turning on guidance reveals a number of things that could be better: % cc hello.c -o hello.so -G -M mapfile.v1 -lelf -zguidance ld: guidance: version 2 mapfile syntax recommended: mapfile.v1 ld: guidance: -z lazyload option recommended before first dependency ld: guidance: -B direct or -z direct option recommended before first dependency Undefined first referenced symbol in file getpid hello.o (symbol belongs to implicit dependency /lib/libc.so.1) printf hello.o (symbol belongs to implicit dependency /lib/libc.so.1) ld: warning: symbol referencing errors ld: guidance: -z defs option recommended for shared objects ld: guidance: removal of unused dependency recommended: libelf.so.1 warning: Text relocation remains referenced against symbol offset in file .rodata1 (section) 0xa hello.o getpid 0x4 hello.o printf 0xf hello.o ld: guidance: position independent (PIC) code recommended for shared objects ld: guidance: see ld(1) -z guidance for more information Given the explicit advice in the above guidance messages, it is relatively easy to modify the example to do the right things: % cat mapfile.v2 # This version 2 mapfile will not trigger a guidance message $mapfile_version 2 % cc hello.c -o hello.so -Kpic -G -Bdirect -M mapfile.v2 -lc -zguidance There are situations in which the guidance does not fit the object being built. For instance, you want to build an object without direct bindings: % cc -Kpic hello.c -o hello.so -G -M mapfile.v2 -lc -zguidance ld: guidance: -B direct or -z direct option recommended before first dependency ld: guidance: see ld(1) -z guidance for more information It is easy to disable that specific guidance warning without losing the overall benefit from allowing the remainder of the guidance feature to operate: % cc -Kpic hello.c -o hello.so -G -M mapfile.v2 -lc -zguidance=nodirect Conclusions The linking guidelines enforced by the ld guidance feature correspond rather directly to our standards for building the core Solaris OS. I'm sure that comes as no surprise. It only makes sense that we would want to build our own product as well as we know how. Solaris is usually the first significant test for any new linker feature. We now enable guidance by default for all builds, and the effect has been very positive. Guidance helps us find suboptimal objects more quickly. Programmers get concrete advice for what to change instead of vague generalities. Even in the cases where we override the guidance, the makefile rules to do so serve as documentation of the fact. Deciding to use guidance is likely to cause some up front work for most code, as it forces you to consider using new features such as direct bindings. Such investigation is worthwhile, but does not come for free. However, the guidance suggestions offer a structured and straightforward way to tackle modernizing your objects, and once that work is done, for keeping them that way. The investment is often worth it, and will replay you in terms of better performance and fewer problems. I hope that you find guidance to be as useful as we have.

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  • What's special about currying or partial application?

    - by Vigneshwaran
    I've been reading articles on Functional programming everyday and been trying to apply some practices as much as possible. But I don't understand what is unique in currying or partial application. Take this Groovy code as an example: def mul = { a, b -> a * b } def tripler1 = mul.curry(3) def tripler2 = { mul(3, it) } I do not understand what is the difference between tripler1 and tripler2. Aren't they both the same? The 'currying' is supported in pure or partial functional languages like Groovy, Scala, Haskell etc. But I can do the same thing (left-curry, right-curry, n-curry or partial application) by simply creating another named or anonymous function or closure that will forward the parameters to the original function (like tripler2) in most languages (even C.) Am I missing something here? There are places where I can use currying and partial application in my Grails application but I am hesitating to do so because I'm asking myself "How's that different?" Please enlighten me.

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  • Languages/Methods to Learn for Scientific Computing?:

    - by Zéychin
    I'm a second-semester Junior working towards a Computer Science degree with a Scientific Computing concentration and a Mathematics degree with a concentration on Applied Discrete Mathematics. So, number crunching and such rather than a bunch of regular expressions, interface design, and networking. I've found that I'm not learning new relevant languages from my coursework and am interested in what the community would recommend me to learn. I know as far as programming methods go, I need to learn more about parallelizing programs, but if there's anything else you can recommend, I would appreciate it. Here's a list of the languages with which I am very experienced (web technologies omitted as they barely apply here). Any recommendations for additional languages I should learn would be very much appreciated!: Java C C++ Fortran77/90/95 Haskell Python MATLAB

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  • Is functional programming a superset of object oriented?

    - by Jimmy Hoffa
    The more functional programming I do, the more I feel like it adds an extra layer of abstraction that seems like how an onion's layer is- all encompassing of the previous layers. I don't know if this is true so going off the OOP principles I've worked with for years, can anyone explain how functional does or doesn't accurately depict any of them: Encapsulation, Abstraction, Inheritance, Polymorphism I think we can all say, yes it has encapsulation via tuples, or do tuples count technically as fact of "functional programming" or are they just a utility of the language? I know Haskell can meet the "interfaces" requirement, but again not certain if it's method is a fact of functional? I'm guessing that the fact that functors have a mathematical basis you could say those are a definite built in expectation of functional, perhaps? Please, detail how you think functional does or does not fulfill the 4 principles of OOP.

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  • Type dependencies vs directory structure

    - by paul
    Something I've been wondering about recently is how to organize types in directories/namespaces w.r.t. their dependencies. One method I've seen, which I believe is the recommendation for both Haskell and .NET (though I can't find the references for this at the moment), is: Type Type/ATypeThatUsesType Type/AnotherTypeThatUsesType My natural inclination, however, is to do the opposite: Type Type/ATypeUponWhichTypeDepends Type/AnotherTypeUponWhichTypeDepends Questions: Is my inclination bass-ackwards? Are there any major benefits/pitfalls of one over the other? Is it just something that depends on the application, e.g. whether you're building a library vs doing normal coding?

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  • Functional programming readability

    - by Jimmy Hoffa
    I'm curious about this because I recall before learning any functional languages, I thought them all horribly, awfully, terribly unreadable. Now that I know Haskell and f#, I find it takes a little longer to read less code, but that little code does far more than an equivalent amount would in an imperative language, so it feels like a net gain and I'm not extremely practiced in functional. Here's my question, I constantly hear from OOP folks that functional style is terribly unreadable. I'm curious if this is the case and I'm deluding myself, or if they took the time to learn a functional language, the whole style would no longer be more unreadable than OOP? Has anybody seen any evidence or got any anecdotes where they saw this go one way or another with frequency enough to possibly say? If writing functionally really is of lower readability than I don't want to keep using it, but I really don't know if that's the case or not..

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  • Permissions and MVC

    - by not-rightfold
    I’m in the progress of developing a web application. This web application is mostly a CRUD interface, although some users are only allowed to perform some actions and see only some parts of views. What would be a reasonable way to handle user permissions, given that some parts of views are not available to users? I was thinking of having a function hasPermission(permission) that returns true iff the current user has the given permission, although it would require conditionals around all parts of views that are only visible to some users. For example: {% if has_permission('view_location') %} {{ product.location }} {% endif %} I’m fearing this will become an ugly and unreadable mess, especially since these permissions can get kind of complicated. How is this problem commonly solved in web applications? I’m considering using Haskell with Happstack or Python with Django.

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  • What are the preferred documentation tools for the major programming languages?

    - by Dave Peck
    I'm interested in compiling a list of major programming languages and their preferred documentation toolsets. To scope this a bit: The exact structure of the answer may vary from language to language, but there appear to be two aspects common to all languages: (1) in-code syntax for documentation, and (2) documentation generators that make use of said syntax. There are also cases where generators are used independent of code. For example, tutorial-style documentation is common in the Python world and is often disconnected from underlying code. Many languages have multiple commonly-used documentation strategies and tool chains, and I'd love to capture this. Finally, there are cross-language tools like Doxygen that also have some traction and would be worth noting here. Here are some obvious target languages to start with: Python, Ruby, Java, C#, PHP, Objective-C, C/C++, Haskell, Erlang, Scala, Clojure If this question catches on, I'll try and keep this section updated with the most recent list. Thanks!

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  • Functional Programming - Does Knowing It Help Job Prospects?

    - by Jetti
    The main language that I use at the moment is C# and I am the most comfortable with it. However, I have started dabbling in F# and Haskell and really enjoy those langauges. I would love to improve my skills in either of those languages over time since it truly is fun for me to use them (as opposed to Ruby, which is hyped as "fun", I just don't get where the fun is, but I digress...). My question is directed at those who have hired/interviewed for programming positions (junior/mid-level): if you see a functional programming language on a resume, does it affect your opinion (whether positive or negatively) of that candidate? My rationale for knowledge of functional programming affecting the view of a candidate is because it can show that the candidate can adapt to different methodologies and take a mulit-dimensional approach to problems rather than the "same old OO approach". (This may be off-base, please let me know if this assumption is as well!)

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  • Are all languages basically the same?

    - by Anirudh
    Recently, i had to understand the design of a small program written in a language i had no idea about (ABAP, if you must know). I could figure it out without too much difficulty. I realize that mastering a new language is a completely different ball game, but purely understanding the intent of code (specifically production standard code, which is not necessarily complex) in any language is straight forward, if you already know a couple of languages (preferably one procedural/OO and one functional). Is this generally true? Are all programming languages made up of similar constructs like loops, conditional statements and message passing between functions? Are there non-esoteric languages that a typical Java/Ruby/Haskell programmer would not be able to make sense of? Do all languages have a common origin?

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  • How to write functionally in a web framework

    - by Kevin Burke
    I love Rich Hickey, Clojure and Haskell and I get it when he talks about functions and the unreliability of side-effecting code. However I work in an environment where nearly all the functions I write have to read from the database, write to the database, make HTTP requests, decrement a user's balance, modify a frontend HTML component based on a click action, return different results based on the URI or the POST body. We also use PHP for the frontend, which is littered with functions like parse_str(), which modifies an object in place. All of these are side-effecting to one degree or another. Given these constraints and the side-effecting nature of the logic I'm coding, what can I do to make my code more reliable and function-able?

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  • Spreadsheet or writing an application?

    - by Lenny222
    When would you keep simple to medium-complex personal calculations in a spread sheet (Excel etc) and when would you write a small program or script for it? For example when you want to calculate what size of mortgage you can afford to buy a house. I could create a spreadsheet and have a nice tabular representation. On the other hand, if i would write a small script in a nice language (in my case Haskell), i'd have the security of a nice type system, preventing typos etc. What are the pro/cons in your opinion?

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  • Is having your own website important?

    - by Josh K
    How necessary or important is it? I try to keep a running list of blogs or sites to follow, but a lot of the time I pull up someone's profile and notice there isn't anything there. Is it really important? I understand are different levels of programming (from C/C++ system programmers to Rails and even Haskell and J) and not everyone works in a language easily worked with for web based applications. Not everything is web-centric, however with the advent of many popular and sometimes free services I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a majority of programmers to have a personal site.

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  • What functional language is most suited to create games with?

    - by Ricket
    I have had my eye on functional programming languages for a while, but am hesitating to actually get into them. But I think it's about time I at least starting glancing that direction to make sure I'm ready for anything. I've seen talk of Haskell, F#, Scala, and so on. But I have no clue the differences between the languages and their communities, nor do I particularly care; except in the context of game development. So, from a game development standpoint, which functional programming language has the most features suited for game programming? For example, are there any functional game development libraries/engines/frameworks or graphics engines for functional languages? Is there a language that handles certain data structures which are commonly used in game development better? Bottom line: what functional programming language is best for functional game programming, and why? I believe/hope this question will declare a clear best language therefore I haven't marked it CW despite its subjective tendency.

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  • Why is cleverness considered harmful in programming by some people?

    - by Larry Coleman
    I've noticed a lot of questions lately relating to different abstraction techniques, and answers saying basically that the techniques in question are "too clever." I would think that part of our jobs as programmers is to determine the best solutions to the problems we are given to solve, and cleverness is helpful in doing that. So my question is: are the people who think certain abstraction techniques are too clever opposed to cleverness per se, or is there some other reason for the objection? EDIT: This parser combinator is an example of what I would consider to be clever code. I downloaded this and looked it over for about half an hour. Then I stepped through the macro expansion on paper and saw the light. Now that I understand it, it seems much more elegant than the Haskell parser combinator.

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  • Is having your own website important?

    - by Josh K
    How necessary or important is it? I try to keep a running list of blogs or sites to follow, but a lot of the time I pull up someone's profile and notice there isn't anything there. Is it really important? I understand are different levels of programming (from C/C++ system programmers to Rails and even Haskell and J) and not everyone works in a language easily worked with for web based applications. Not everything is web-centric, however with the advent of many popular and sometimes free services I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a majority of programmers to have a personal site.

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  • Does FP mess up your OOP skills?

    - by bonomo
    I've been learning functional programming in Haskell and F# for awhile and now when I got some skills it gets harder for me to think in OOP way and program in C# and JavaScript. Everything seems to be ass-backwards there with classes, interfaces, objects and I often stare at the screen trying to think of a better way around without using them. This is something that scares me, because I didn't have problems like that before (not knowing that the same stuff can be done in a different way). So I am concerned as I don't want to loose myself as a OOP developer, because this is what I do for living. Is it a normal thing? Shall I rather stop doing FP? How did you manage to cope with it?

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  • Programming language specific package management systems

    - by m0nhawk
    There are some programming languages for which exist their own package management systems: CTAN for TeX CPAN for Perl Pip & Eggs for Python Maven for Java cabal for Haskell Gems for Ruby Is there any other languages with such systems? What about C and C++? (that's the main question!) Why there are no such systems for them? And isn't creating packages for yum, apt-get or other general package management systems better? UPD: And what about unification? Have someone tried to unify that "the zoo"? If yes, looks like that project didn't succeed.

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  • Why does everyone dislike PHP? [closed]

    - by SomeKittens
    I'm primarily a Java/Python programmer, but I just picked up an entry-level job doing web development. I had to learn PHP, and several of my CS friends told me that it would stunt my coding ability/be terrible to program in/murder me in the middle of the night. So far, there have been annoying moments with the language (one particular thing that bugs me is the syntax for calling functions...), but nothing living up to the statements of my friends. I still haven't learned very much about the language. Is their hate justified? Why or why not? A few quotes I've seen about PHP: Haskell is faster than C++, more concise than Perl, more regular than Python, more flexible than Ruby, more typeful than C#, more robust than Java, and has absolutely nothing in common with PHP. Audrey Tang "PHP is a minor evil perpetrated and created by incompetent amateurs, whereas Perl is a great and insidious evil, perpetrated by skilled but perverted professionals." Jon Ribbens. Programmer.

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  • A good language for c# dev to expand his mind [closed]

    - by Jan Kratochvil
    I have some free time on my hands and I was thinking about learning a new language. I do not plan to use it in my day-to-day job, but I rather want to expand my way of thinking to get a better sense where the dev world is heading from a language perspective and to don't get stuck in my way when programming by rather try new approaches. I was thinking either a functional language, like Haskell or F# (which is a bit more 'pragmatic from a .NET dev standpoint) or something dynamic (like Python, that in my oppinion has nicer syntax than Ruby). What can you recommend that is enjoyable, at least a bit practical, but most of all, new (from a c# dev perspective). I appreciate any answers.

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  • Algorithm for Learning development

    - by user9057
    Hi all, This is a fairly general question. I know a bit of Perl and Python and I am looking to learn programming in more depth so that once I get the hang of it I can start developing applications and then websites. I would like to know of an algorithm (sequence of steps :)) that could describe my approach towards learning programming in general. I have posted small questions on Perl/Python and I have recieved great help from everyone. Note:- I am not in a hurry to learn. I know it takes time and that's fine. Please give any suggestions you think are valid. Also, please don't push me to learn Lisp, Haskell etc - I am a beginner.

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  • Algorithm for Learning development

    - by user9057
    This is a fairly general question. I know a bit of Perl and Python and I am looking to learn programming in more depth so that once I get the hang of it I can start developing applications and then websites. I would like to know of an algorithm (sequence of steps :)) that could describe my approach towards learning programming in general. I have posted small questions on Perl/Python and I have recieved great help from everyone. Note:- I am not in a hurry to learn. I know it takes time and that's fine. Please give any suggestions you think are valid. Also, please don't push me to learn Lisp, Haskell etc - I am a beginner.

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  • What are the challenges and benefits of writing games with a functional language?

    - by McMuttons
    While I know that functional languages aren't the most commonly used for game writing, there are a lot of benefits associate with them that seem like they would be interesting in any programming context. Especially the ease of parallelization I would think could be very useful as focus is moving toward more and more processors. Also, with F# as a new member of the .NET family, it can be used directly with XNA, for example, which lowers the threshold quite a bit, as opposed to going with LISP, Haskell, Erlang, etc. If anyone has experience writing games with functional code, what has turned out to be the positives and negatives? What was it suited for, what not? Edit: Finding it hard to decide that there's a single good answer for this, so it's probably better suited as a community wiki post.

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  • Accessing Yahoo realtime stock quotes

    - by DVK
    There's a fairly easy way of retrieving 15-minute delayed quotes off of Yahoo! Finance web site ("quotes.csv" API). However, so far I was unable to find any info on how to access real-time quotes. The hang-ups with real-time quotes are: Only available to logged-in user No API Non-obvious how to scrape the info - I'm somewhat convinced they are placed on the page by some weird Ajax call. So I was wondering if anyone had managed to develop a publically available solution to retrieve real-time quotes for a stock from Yahoo! Finance. Notes: Implementation language/framework need is flexible but Perl or Excel is highly preferred. Assume that security is not an issue - I'm willing to supply yahoo userid and pasword, even in cleartext. I'm not 100% hung up on Yahoo - they are merely the only provider of free realtime stock quotes I'm familiar with. if the same thing can be done with Google Finance, I'd be just as happy. This is for a personal project, so scalability/fault tolerance/etc... are not important. I'm looking for a "do the whole retrieval" library ideally, but if I'm pointed to partial solutions (e.g. how to retrieve info from Yahoo's user-logged-in pages; how to scrape realtime quotes from Yahoo's page) I can fill in the blanks. I saw Finance::YahooQuote but it does not seem to allow you to supply log-in information and appears to use the lagging quotes.csv API Thanks!

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  • How to access Actionscript from Javascript in Adobe AIR

    - by David Robinson
    I have an AIR application written in html/javascript and I want to use the Actionscript print functions but I have no experience in Actionscript for AIR. Where do I put the Actionscript code ? Does it go into an mxml file or does it need to be compiled into a Flash application. Where do I put it and how do I include it into the html document ? Finally, how do I call the AS function from Javascript ? =====update===== I know I have to compile either an .mxml or .as file into .swf using mxmlc and I have the following in my .as file: package { import mx.controls.Alert; public class HelloWorld { public function HelloWorld():void { trace("Hello, world!"); } } } Or alternately, this in a .mxml file: <mx:Application xmlns:mx="http://www.adobe.com/2006/mxml"> <mx:Script> <![CDATA[ import mx.controls.Alert; public function HelloWorld():void { Alert.show("hello world!"); trace("Hello, world!"); } ]]> </mx:Script> </mx:Application> This compiles OK, but when I include it in a html file with: <script src="actionscript.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"></script> I get the following error: TypeError: Error #1009: Cannot access a property or method of a null object reference. at mx.managers::FocusManager/activate() at mx.managers::SystemManager/activateForm() at mx.managers::SystemManager/activate() at mx.core::Application/initManagers() at mx.core::Application/initialize() at actionscript/initialize() at mx.managers::SystemManager/http://www.adobe.com/2006/flex/mx/internal::childAdded() at mx.managers::SystemManager/initializeTopLevelWindow() at mx.managers::SystemManager/http://www.adobe.com/2006/flex/mx/internal::docFrameHandler() at mx.managers::SystemManager/docFrameListener() Any ideas what that means ?

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