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  • Does anyone actually use the /// comment blocks?

    - by Rachel
    Someone once said we should prefix all our methods with the /// <summary> comment blocks (C#) and I am wondering if that is true or not. I started to use them and found they annoyed me quite a bit, so stopped using them except for libraries and static methods. They're bulky and I'm always forgetting to update them. Do you recommend using them? Why? EDIT: I normally use // comments all the time, it's just the /// <summary> blocks I was wondering about

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  • how to ask questions about bad practices in stackoverflow ( or other technical forums) [migrated]

    - by Nahum Litvin
    I had a case when I needed to do something in code that I knew is a bad practice. but because of a unique situation and after considering the risks thoroughly decided that is worth it. I cannot start explaining all my considerations that include buisness secrets over the internet but I do need technical assistance. when I tried to ask at SA I got heated responses why it is a bad practice instead of answeres to how to do this. poeple are so conserned about what is the right way to write code that they forget that there are other considerations as well. can anyone provide insight of how to correctly ask such a question in order to avoid "this is a bad practice" answers and get real answers?

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  • How can I find the shortest path between two subgraphs of a larger graph?

    - by Pops
    I'm working with a weighted, undirected multigraph (loops not permitted; most node connections have multiplicity 1; a few node connections have multiplicity 2). I need to find the shortest path between two subgraphs of this graph that do not overlap with each other. There are no other restrictions on which nodes should be used as start/end points. Edges can be selectively removed from the graph at certain times (as explained in my previous question) so it's possible that for two given subgraphs, there might not be any way to connect them. I'm pretty sure I've heard of an algorithm for this before, but I can't remember what it's called, and my Google searches for strings like "shortest path between subgraphs" haven't helped. Can someone suggest a more efficient way to do this than comparing shortest paths between all nodes in one subgraph with all nodes in the other subgraph? Or at least tell me the name of the algorithm so I can look it up myself? For example, if I have the graph below, the nodes circled in red might be one subgraph and the nodes circled in blue might be another. The edges would all have positive integer weights, although they're not shown in the image. I'd want to find whatever path has the shortest total cost as long as it starts at a red node and ends at a blue node. I believe this means the specific node positions and edge weights cannot be ignored. (This is just an example graph I grabbed off Wikimedia and drew on, not my actual problem.)

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  • Best Persistence choice for J2EE-App with frequently changing Data Model

    - by Ben-G
    Whenever I develop a J2EE-Application, I at some point decide to switch from my dummy Persistence (Simply Using Lists and other Data Structures) to some Sort of Database Persistence. Mostly when I hope the Data Model is more or less complete. From this point on, changes to the data model become exhausting, but unluckily they occur rather often. I've used different Object-Relational-Mappers (iBatis, Hibernate) for my projects. They definitely reduce the pain coming with Data Model changes, but they anyway let me adjust code/configuration at 3 or 4 places for every single change. To me, that's cumbersome and error prone. I made a better experience with DB4O, which simply persists Java Objects as they are, but I believe it's performance does not scale for huge applications. Is there anyway to maintain performance while letting out all the ugly configuration work? I'm seeking a performant framework which really hides persistence from my code. Wish for thinking? Or am I missing out THE technology? Hope you can help.

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  • Is this how dynamic language copes with dynamic requirement?

    - by Amumu
    The question is in the title. I want to have my thinking verified by experienced people. You can add more or disregard my opinion, but give me a reason. Here is an example requirement: Suppose you are required to implement a fighting game. Initially, the game only includes fighters, who can attack each other. Each fighter can punch, kick or block incoming attacks. Fighters can have various fighting styles: Karate, Judo, Kung Fu... That's it for the simple universe of the game. In an OO like Java, it can be implemented similar to this way: abstract class Fighter { int hp, attack; void punch(Fighter otherFighter); void kick(Fighter otherFighter); void block(Figther otherFighter); }; class KarateFighter extends Fighter { //...implementation...}; class JudoFighter extends Fighter { //...implementation... }; class KungFuFighter extends Fighter { //...implementation ... }; This is fine if the game stays like this forever. But, somehow the game designers decide to change the theme of the game: instead of a simple fighting game, the game evolves to become a RPG, in which characters can not only fight but perform other activities, i.e. the character can be a priest, an accountant, a scientist etc... At this point, to make it more generic, we have to change the structure of our original design: Fighter is not used to refer to a person anymore; it refers to a profession. The specialized classes of Fighter (KaraterFighter, JudoFighter, KungFuFighter) . Now we have to create a generic class named Person. However, to adapt this change, I have to change the method signatures of the original operations: class Person { int hp, attack; List<Profession> skillSet; }; abstract class Profession {}; class Fighter extends Profession { void punch(Person otherFighter); void kick(Person otherFighter); void block(Person otherFighter); }; class KarateFighter extends Fighter { //...implementation...}; class JudoFighter extends Fighter { //...implementation... }; class KungFuFighter extends Fighter { //...implementation ... }; class Accountant extends Profession { void calculateTax(Person p) { //...implementation...}; void calculateTax(Company c) { //...implementation...}; }; //... more professions... Here are the problems: To adapt to the method changes, I have to fix the places where the changed methods are called (refactoring). Every time a new requirement is introduced, the current structural design has to be broken to adapt the changes. This leads to the first problem. Rigid structure makes it hard for code reuse. A function can only accept the predefined types, but it cannot accept future unknown types. A written function is bound to its current universe and has no way to accommodate to the new types, without modifications or rewrite from scratch. I see Java has a lot of deprecated methods. OO is an extreme case because it has inheritance to add up the complexity, but in general for statically typed language, types are very strict. In contrast, a dynamic language can handle the above case as follow: ;;fighter1 punch fighter2 (defun perform-punch (fighter1 fighter2) ...implementation... ) ;;fighter1 kick fighter2 (defun perform-kick (fighter1 fighter2) ...implementation... ) ;;fighter1 blocks attacks from fighter2 (defun perform-block (fighter1 fighter2) ...implementation... ) fighter1 and fighter2 can be anything as long as it has the required data for calculation; or methods (duck typing). You don't have to change from the type Fighter to Person. In the case of Lisp, because Lisp only has a single data structure: list, it's even easier to adapt to changes. However, other dynamic languages can have similar behaviors as well. I work primarily with static languages (mainly C and Java, but working with Java was a long time ago). I started learning Lisp and some other dynamic languages this year. I can see how it helps improving my productivity.

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  • Is there a language or design pattern that allows the *removal* of object behavior or properties in a class hierarchy?

    - by Sebastien Diot
    A well-know shortcoming of traditional class hierarchies is that they are bad when it comes to model the real world. As an example, trying to represent animals species with classes. There are actually several problems when doing that, but one that I never saw a solution to is when a sub-class "looses" a behavior or properties that was defined in a super-class, like a penguin not being able to fly (there are probably better examples, but that's the first one that comes to my mind, having seen "Madagascar 2" recently). On the one hand, you don't want to define for every property and behavior some flag that specifies if it is at all present, and check it every time before accessing that behavior or property. You would just like to say that birds can fly, simply and clearly, in the Bird class. But then it would be nice if one could define "exceptions" afterward, without having to use some horrible hacks everywhere. This often happens when a system has been productive for a while. You suddenly find an "exception" that doesn't fit in the original design at all, and you don't want to change a large portion of your code to accommodate it. So, is there some language or design patterns that can cleanly handle this problem, without requiring major changes to the "super-class", and all the code that uses it? Even if a solution only handle a specific case, several solutions might together form a complete strategy. [EDIT] Forgot about the Liskov Substitution Principle. That is why you can't do it. Assuming you define "traits/interfaces" for all major "feature groups", you can freely implement traits in different branches of the hierarchy, like the Flying trait could be implemented by Birds, and some special kind of squirrels and fish. So my question could amount to "How could I un-implement a trait?" If your super-class is a Java Serializable, you have to be one too, even if there is no way for you to serialize your state, for example if you contained a "Socket". So one way to do it is to always define all your traits in pair from the start: Flying and NotFlying (which would throw UnsupportedOperationExceiption, if not checked against). The Not-trait would not define any new interface, and could be simply checked for. Sounds like a "cheap" solution, in particular if used from the start.

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  • How can I most efficiently communicate my personal code of ethics, and its implications?

    - by blueberryfields
    There is a lot to the definition of a professional. There are many questions here asking how to identify components of what is essentially a professional programmer - how do you identify or communicate expertise, specialization, high quality work, excellent skills in relation to the profession. I am specifically looking for methods to communicate a specific component, and I quote from wikipedia: A high standard of professional ethics, behavior and work activities while carrying out one's profession (as an employee, self-employed person, career, enterprise, business, company, or partnership/associate/colleague, etc.). The professional owes a higher duty to a client, often a privilege of confidentiality, as well as a duty not to abandon the client just because he or she may not be able to pay or remunerate the professional. Often the professional is required to put the interest of the client ahead of his own interests. How can I most efficiently communicate my professionalism, in the spirit of the quote above, to current and potential clients and employers?

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  • How can I implement a Epub Reader in Javascript

    - by Vlad Nicula
    I'm wondering if I can create a epub reader in javascript. The basic requirements would be: 1) Server parts of the epub reader from a server API. 2) Read the EPUB data in javascript. 3) Render it on page. 4) Provide some extra functionality, like text highlights or page notes. I have no information about how I could do this. I'm willing to try a prototype project. What are the steps that I could take towards implementing such a thing?

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  • Find vertices of a convex hull

    - by Jeff Bullard
    I am attempting to do this within CGAL. From a 3D point cloud, find the convex hull, then loop over the finite facets of the convex hull and print each facet's vertices. It seems like there should be a straightforward way to do this; I would have expected that 3D polyhedra would own a vector of facet objects, each of which in turn would own a vector of its edges, each of which in turn would own a vector of its vertices, and that their would be some access through this hierarchy using iterators. But so far I have been unable to find a simple way to navigate through this hierarchy (if it exists).

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  • When to use http status code 404

    - by Sybiam
    I am working on a project and after arguing with people at work for about more than a hour. I decided to know what people on stack-exchange might say. We're writing an API for a system, there is a query that should return a tree of Organization or a tree of Goals. The tree of Organization is the organization in which the user is present, In other words, this tree should always exists. In the organization, a tree of goal should be always present. (that's where the argument started). In case where the tree doesn't exist, my co-worker decided that it would be right to answer response with status code 200. And then started asking me to fix my code because the application was falling apart when there is no tree. I'll try to spare flames and fury. I suggested to raise a 404 error when there is no tree. It would at least let me know that something is wrong. When using 200, I have to add special check to my response in the success callback to handle errors. I'm expecting to receive an object, but I may actually receive an empty response because nothing is found. It sounds totally fair to mark the response as a 404. And then war started and I got the message that I didn't understand HTTP status code schema. So I'm here and asking what's wrong with 404 in this case? I even got the argument "It found nothing, so it's right to return 200". I believe that it's wrong since the tree should be always present. If we found nothing and we are expecting something, it should be a 404. Extra Also, I believe the best answer to the problem is to create default objects when organizations are created, having no tree shouldn't be a valid case and should be seen as an undefined behavior. There is no way an account can be used without both trees. For that reasons, they should be always present.

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  • Simple vs Complex (but performance efficient) solution - which one to choose and when?

    - by ManojGumber
    I have been programming for a couple of years and have often found myself at a dilemma. There are two solutions - one is simple one i.e. simple approach, easier to understand and maintain. It involves some redundancy, some extra work (extra IO, extra processing) and therefore is not the most optimal solution. but other uses a complex approach,difficult to implement, often involving interaction between lot of modules and is a performance efficient solution. Which solution should I strive for when I do not have hard performance SLA to meet and even the simple solution can meet the performance SLA? I have felt disdain among my fellow developers for simple solution. Is it good practice to come up with most optimal complex solution if your performance SLA can be met by a simple solution?

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  • Is defining every method/state per object in a series of UML diagrams representative of MDA in general?

    - by Max
    I am currently working on a project where we use a framework that combines code generation and ORM together with UML to develop software. Methods are added to UML classes and are generated into partial classes where "stuff happens". For example, an UML class "Content" could have the method DeleteFromFileSystem(void). Which could be implemented like this: public partial class Content { public void DeleteFromFileSystem() { File.Delete(...); } } All methods are designed like this. Everything happens in these gargantuan logic-bomb domain classes. Is this how MDA or DDD or similar usually is done? For now my impression of MDA/DDD (which this has been called by higherups) is that it severely stunts my productivity (everything must be done The Way) and that it hinders maintenance work since all logic are roped, entrenched, interspersed into the mentioned gargantuan bombs. Please refrain from interpreting this as a rant - I am merely curious if this is typical MDA or some sort of extreme MDA UPDATE Concerning the example above, in my opinion Content shouldn't handle deleting itself as such. What if we change from local storage to Amazon S3, in that case we would have to reimplement this functionality scattered over multiple places instead of one single interface which we can provide a second implementation for.

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  • SQL Interview Preparation : QA Engineer Position

    - by user9009
    Hello, I have interview with enterprise company for QA Engineer(New Grad-Mid level experience) position. I was told i would expect some questions on SQL. The company is eCommerce shopping portal. So what kind of questions do i expect for SQL coding ? . DO i need to learn how to code complex queries? Any inputs would be appreciated. Please provide links which you think can be helpful. Yes i found similar question on StackOverflow, but i wanted to know important SQL topics from QA Engineer Perspective Thanks

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  • Databases and the CI server

    - by mlk
    I have a CI server (Hudson) which merrily builds, runs unit tests and deploys to the development environment but I'd now like to get it running the integration tests. The integration tests will hit a database and that database will be consistently being changed to contain the data relevant to the test in question. This however leads to a problem - how do I make sure the database is not being splatted with data for one test and then that data being override by a second project before the first set of tests complete? I am current using the "hope" method, which is not working out too badly at the moment, but mostly due to the fact that we only have a small number of integration tests set up on CI. As I see it I have the following options: Test-local (in memory) databases I'm not sure if any in-memory databases handle all the scaryness of Oracles triggers and packages etc, and anything less I don't feel would be a worth while test. CI Executor-local databasesA fair amount of work would be needed to set this up and keep 'em up to date, but defiantly an option (most of the work is already done to keep the current CI database up-to-date). Single "integration test" executorLikely the easiest to implement, but would mean the integration tests could fall quite far behind. Locking the database (or set of tables) I'm sure I've missed some ways (please add them). How do you run database-based integration tests on the CI server? What issues have you had and what method do you recommend? (Note: While I use Hudson, I'm happy to accept answers for any CI server, the ideas I'm sure will be portable, even if the details are not). Cheers,      Mlk

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  • I'm tasked with leading the documentation effort for an existing, entirely undocumented, software product - what resources are there to help me?

    - by Ben Rose
    I'm a software developer at a technology company. I have been tasked with leading the documentation effort for the product I work on. The goal is to produce documentation internal to developer, and the project spills over into the business side, where it covers requirements documentation. This project is challenging. Specifically, I'm dealing with a product which: - has been around for a long time, at least 6 years. - has no form of documentation other than some small, outdated pieces here and there. - has comments in the code, but they are technical and do not convey any over-arching behavior (even on technical side). - as a consequence of having little to no documentation, is often unnecessarily complex under the covers In addition, we have not been given a lot of time to work on this project. I do not have any formal documentation or writing background, training, or experience. I have displayed some ability in writing/communication around the office, which may be why I was assigned to this project. Please share your advice or recommendation for resources to help me prepare and deal with this project. I'm looking for references to books/website/forums/whatever, to help me come up with the design of a plan with milestones, learn about best practices, task delegation, templates, buy-in, etc. I'm hoping specifically for resources targeting or giving special mention of introducing good documentation to existing, undocumented, projects. I would be very grateful for your responses. Ben

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  • PHP: A config file in .ini or .php format?

    - by Tim Visee
    I'm working on a huge CMS system, and I asked myself what configuration format I should use. There are two common formats for configuration files. The first one is an INI file, containg all the configuration properties. Then you can simply parse this INI file using build in PHP functions. A second option is to use a PHP file containing a regular PHP array with these configuration properties. Now, it's easier to edit an INI file, but a PHP file give's you more options, for example it allows you to add a function which retrieves one of the configuration options while reading the configuration file. Note: The PHP configuration file would only contain an array of configuration, no initialization functions or anything. (This is possible of course, but it's not implemented by default) Now, what is recommend for me to use as configuration file? What is the most common format for a configuration file? Should I go for simplicity with the INI files, or with a more dynamic one using PHP. One thing to note, this is not for personal usage. I'm planning to release the CMS system soon, and a lot of websites are scheduled already to change to my CMS system.

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  • Should I break contract early?

    - by cbang
    About 7 months ago I made the switch from a 5 year permie role (as a support developer in C#) to a contract role. I did this because I was stagnating in my old role. The extra cash contracting is really helping too. Unfortunately my team leader has taken a dislike to me from day 1. He regularly tells me I went out contracting too early, and frequently remarks that people in their 20's have no idea what they are talking about (I am 29). I was recently given the task of configuring our reports via our in house reporting library. It works off of a database driven criteria base, with controls being loaded as needed. The configs can get fairly complex, with controls having various levels of dependency on each other. I had a short time frame to get 50 reports working, and I was told to just get the basic configuration done, after which they will be handed over to the reporting team for fine tuning, then the test team. Our updated system was deployed 2 weeks ago, and it turned out that about 15 reports had issues causing incorrect data to be returned. Upon investigation I discovered that the reporting team hadn't even looked at them, and the test team hadn't bothered to test the reports. In spite of this, my team leader has told me that it is 100% my fault. As a result, our help desk got hit hard. I worked back until 2am that night to fix the highest priority issues (on my wedding anniversary!). The next day I arrive at work at 7:45 am to continue with the fixes. I got no thanks, but keep getting repeatedly told by my manager that "I fucked up" and "this is all my fault". I told my team leader I would spend part of my weekend working to fix the remaining issues. His response was "so you fucking should! you fucked it all up!" in front of the rest of the team. I responded "No worries." and left. I spent a decent chunk of my weekend working on it. Within 2 business days of finding out about the issues, I had all the medium and high priority issues fixed. The only comments my team leader has made to me in the last 2 weeks is to tell me how I have caused a big mess, and to tell me it was all my fault. I get this multiple times a day. If I make any jokes to anyone else in the team, I get told not to be a smartass... even though the rest of the team jokes throughout the day. Apart from that, all I get is angry looks any time I am anywhere near the guy. I don't give any response other than "alright" or silence when he starts giving me a hard time. Today we found out that the pilot release for the next stage has been pushed back. My team leader has said this was caused by me (but the higher ups said no such thing). He also said I have "no understanding of the ramifications of my actions". My question is, should I break contract (I am contracted until June 30) and find another role? No one else in my team will speak up in my favour, as they are contractors too and have no interest in rocking the boat. I could complain to my team leaders boss, but I can't see that helping, as I will still be stuck in the same team. As this is my first contract, I imagine getting the next one will be hard without a reference. I can't figure out if this guy is trying to get me fired up to provoke a confrontation (the guy loves conflict), or if he is just venting anger, or what. Copping this blame day after day is really wearing me down and making me depressed... especially since I have a wife and kid to support).

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  • What is the ideal length of a method?

    - by iPhoneDeveloper
    In object-oriented programming, there is no exact rule on the maximum length of a method , but I still found these two qutes somewhat contradicting each other, so I would like to hear what you think. In Clean Code: A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship, Robert Martin says: The first rule of functions is that they should be small. The second rule of functions is that they should be smaller than that. Functions should not be 100 lines long. Functions should hardly ever be 20 lines long. and he gives an example from Java code he sees from Kent Beck: Every function in his program was just two, or three, or four lines long. Each was transparently obvious. Each told a story. And each led you to the next in a compelling order. That’s how short your functions should be! This sounds great, but on the other hand, in Code Complete, Steve McConnell says something very different: The routine should be allowed to grow organically up to 100-200 lines, decades of evidence say that routines of such length no more error prone then shorter routines. And he gives a reference to a study that says routines 65 lines or long are cheaper to develop. So while there are diverging opinions about the matter, is there a functional best-practice towards determining the ideal length of a method for you?

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  • Basic web architecture : Perl -> PHP

    - by Sunny Jim
    This is an architecture question. If there is a better forum, please redirect me. Apologies in advance. Essentially every website is built around a relational database, right? When a user uploads form data, that data is stored in a table. The problem is that the table structure(s) need to be modified whenever the website form is modified. Although I understand that modern web frameworks work around this problem by automatically building forms based on the table structure. For the last 20 years, I have been building websites using Perl. When I first encountered this problem, the easiest solution was to save serialized Perl objects as data BLOBS. After XML's introduction, this solution worked even better because XML is so effective for representing arbitrary data. This approach is consistent with the original Perl principles of Hubris, Laziness, and Impatience and I'm pretty committed to it. Obviously, the biggest drawback is that this solution locks me into the Perl interpreter. So instead, I've just completed a prototype of a universal RDB table. The prototype is written in Perl but porting it to PHP will be a good chance to develop those skills. The principal is based on the XML::Dumper module, which converts arbitrary Perl data structures into uniform XML. With my approach, each XML node is stored as a table record. I underestimated this undertaking and rolled something up myself. But the effort allows me to discuss the basic design instead of implementation details. As mentioned, I'm pretty committed to this approach of using flexible data structures. It's been successfully deployed on many websites, large, and complex. But are there any drawbacks I've overlooked? I rolled my own. Are other people taking a similar approach to their data? What kinds of solutions are available? I have not abandoned my dream of eventually contributing something useful to the worldwide community. In order to proceed, the next step would be peer review. How does one pursue that effort? Thanks! -Jim

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  • Beginning programming for real clients, what copyright should I put in the code?

    - by Igor Marvinsky
    Hello. So far, I've been writing projects for my friends and friends of my friends, which required no legal stuff. Now I've moved on to freelance programming on websites like vworker.com and I'm wondering what should I put in the comments on top of the code. I'm not doing big, serious serious projects, just frontends and scrapers/bots for what I gather is personal use. Would my usual // Written by Igor Marvinsky, 2011 be enough?

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  • White box testing with Google Test

    - by Daemin
    I've been trying out using GoogleTest for my C++ hobby project, and I need to test the internals of a component (hence white box testing). At my previous work we just made the test classes friends of the class being tested. But with Google Test that doesn't work as each test is given its own unique class, derived from the fixture class if specified, and friend-ness doesn't transfer to derived classes. Initially I created a test proxy class that is friends with the tested class. It contains a pointer to an instance of the tested class and provides methods for the required, but hidden, members. This worked for a simple class, but now I'm up to testing a tree class with an internal private node class, of which I need to access and mess with. I'm just wondering if anyone using the GoogleTest library has done any white box testing and if they have any hints or helpful constructs that would make this easier. Ok, I've found the FRIEND_TEST macro defined in the documentation, as well as some hints on how to test private code in the advanced guide. But apart from having a huge amount of friend declerations (i.e. one FRIEND_TEST for each test), is there an easier idion to use, or should I abandon using GoogleTest and move to a different test framework?

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  • Tomorrow's web development: What's the bearing?

    - by pex
    I just read a wonderful article about headaches web developers have to live with nowadays. Several questions from that article busied me for some time as well. Now I am wondering whether I missed something, whether there are approaches other than Sproutcore or Cappucino to combine the eternal detached worlds of backend and frontend. How to only write validations once? How to collect business logic in only one model? Are we heading toward a combination of CouchDB Views, NodeJS and minimalistic client-side scripts including plenty of XHR requests? Or shall we follow the direction of handling everything except the database on client side? Is everything about JavaScript? I simply ask for approaches of setting up the next web application, for best practices and promising new technologies and frameworks.

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  • English to French translation of computing terminology

    - by Rich
    I work in France as a Java programmer, mainly in French, but am a native English speaker. My level of French is pretty good (French wife!), but one thing I have problems with is working out whether to use English terminology or a French equivalent. Examples: lock (as in a synchronisation lock) - do I use the verb "locker" or do I use verrouiller? shard (databases) - "un shard" or "un tesson" (which means a shard of glass) ...and so-on... So, what do people recommend? Can anyone point out some good websites for translating this kind of terminology? The usual online translation tools are a bit too everyday English/French, not the slightly more specialised version that I find myself needing.

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  • How to increase ad revenue

    - by Brian515
    I have an Android game in which I've included ads from Millennial Media and Admob. Between these two networks, my fill rate is consistently above 95%. Right now, I'm getting over 45,000 requests for ads per day, and I'm starting to see exponential growth. But, my eCpm for both Millennial and Admob is ridiculously low. Millennial's is $.12 and Admob's is $.01. I've been reading some other posts and it seems like people are getting between $1 and $4 per 1,000 views. How can increase mine? Thank you!

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  • Acceptance tests done first...how can this be accomplished?

    - by Crazy Eddie
    The basic gist of most Agile methods is that a feature is not "done" until it's been developed, tested, and in many cases released. This is supposed to happen in quick turnaround chunks of time such as "Sprints" in the Scrum process. A common part of Agile is also TDD, which states that tests are done first. My team works on a GUI program that does a lot of specific drawing and such. In order to provide tests, the testing team needs to be able to work with something that at least attempts to perform the things they are trying to test. We've found no way around this problem. I can very much see where they are coming from because if I was trying to write software that targeted some basically mysterious interface I'd have a very hard time. Although we have behavior fairly well specified, the exact process of interacting with various UI elements when it comes to automation seems to be too unique to a feature to allow testers to write automated scripts to drive something that does not exist. Even if we could, a lot of things end up turning up later as having been missing from the specification. One thing we considered doing was having the testers write test "scripts" that are more like a set of steps that must be performed, as described from a use-case perspective, so that they can be "automated" by a human being. This can then be performed by the developer(s) writing the feature and/or verified by someone else. When the testers later get an opportunity they automate the "script" for regression purposes mainly. This didn't end up catching on in the team though. The testing part of the team is actually falling behind us by quite a margin. This is one reason why the apparently extra time of developing a "script" for a human being to perform just did not happen....they're under a crunch to keep up with us developers. If we waited for them, we'd get nothing done. It's not their fault really, they're a bottle neck but they're doing what they should be and working as fast as possible. The process itself seems to be set up against them. Very often we end up having to go back a month or more in what we've done to fix bugs that the testers have finally gotten to checking. It's an ugly truth that I'd like to do something about. So what do other teams do to solve this fail cascade? How can we get testers ahead of us and how can we make it so that there's actually time for them to write tests for the features we do in a sprint without making us sit and twiddle our thumbs in the meantime? As it's currently going, in order to get a feature "done", using agile definitions, would be to have developers work for 1 week, then testers work the second week, and developers hopefully being able to fix all the bugs they come up with in the last couple days. That's just not going to happen, even if I agreed it was a reasonable solution. I need better ideas...

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