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• Does FP mess up your OOP skills?

  - by bonomo

  I've been learning functional programming in Haskell and F# for awhile and now when I got some skills it gets harder for me to think in OOP way and program in C# and JavaScript. Everything seems to be ass-backwards there with classes, interfaces, objects and I often stare at the screen trying to think of a better way around without using them. This is something that scares me, because I didn't have problems like that before (not knowing that the same stuff can be done in a different way). So I am concerned as I don't want to loose myself as a OOP developer, because this is what I do for living. Is it a normal thing? Shall I rather stop doing FP? How did you manage to cope with it?

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• Building a complete program?

  - by Bob

  Reading books, watching videos, and reviewing tutorials is all very easy. Taking notes and actually learning the material may be slightly harder, but even then, anyone with a decent brain and a fair amount of interest, it's easy enough (not to mention, fun). The thing is, it doesn't really prepare you to write a full program or website. Let's say you're those teens (only in highschool, no true (college level) computer science or programming courses, and no real world experience), and you come out with Groupon. Or even Mark Zuckerburg, sure he was a genius, and he was a very capable programmer... but how? How do you recommend that people who are not necessarily new to programming, but new to programming real applications and real programmers go about developing it? What is the "development process" - especially for single programmers (or maybe 2-3 teens)? Also, as far as web development goes, what is the process? Was something like Facebook or Groupon written with a framework (like CodeIgniter or Zend for PHP)? Or do they develop their own frameworks? I'm not asking how to come up with a great idea, but how to implement great ideas in an effective way? Does anyone have advice? I've read a couple of books on both C and C++ (primarily the C Programming Language and the C++ Programming Language) and taken AP Computer Science (as well as read a few additional books on Java and OOP). I also have read a few tutorials on PHP (and CodeIgniter) and Python. But I'm still in highschool, and I'm technically not even old enough to work at an internship for a few more months.

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• Being stupid to get better productivity?

  - by loki2302

  I've spent a lot of time reading different books about "good design", "design patterns", etc. I'm a big fan of the SOLID approach and every time I need to write a simple piece of code, I think about the future. So, if implementing a new feature or a bug fix requires just adding three lines of code like this: if(xxx) { doSomething(); } It doesn't mean I'll do it this way. If I feel like this piece of code is likely to become larger in the nearest future, I'll think of adding abstractions, moving this functionality somewhere else and so on. The goal I'm pursuing is keeping average complexity the same as it was before my changes. I believe, that from the code standpoint, it's quite a good idea - my code is never long enough, and it's quite easy to understand the meanings for different entities, like classes, methods, and relations between classes and objects. The problem is, it takes too much time, and I often feel like it would be better if I just implemented that feature "as is". It's just about "three lines of code" vs. "new interface + two classes to implement that interface". From a product standpoint (when we're talking about the result), the things I do are quite senseless. I know that if we're going to work on the next version, having good code is really great. But on the other side, the time you've spent to make your code "good" may have been spent for implementing a couple of useful features. I often feel very unsatisfied with my results - good code that only can do A is worse than bad code that can do A, B, C, and D. Are there any books, articles, blogs, or your ideas that may help with developing one's "being stupid" approach?

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• TechCast Live: Java and Oracle, One Year Later (tomorrow!)

  - by Jacob Lehrbaum

  On year ago, tomorrow, Oracle became the steward of Java through its acquisition of Sun.We invite you to join us tomorrow on the anniversary of this memorable event for a special TechCast Live conversation with Ajay Patel, VP of Product development for Application Grid Products and Justin Kestelyn of Oracle Technology Network. Topics that will be covered include:- Highlights, challenges and what we learned over the past year - The Future of Java and its importance to Oracle and the community - Oracle's Application Grid product portfolio todayDate:Feb, 15, 10:00am PSTWatch it live (tomorrow)

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• Entry level engineer question regarding memory mangement

  - by Ealianis

  It has been a few months since I started my position as an entry level software developer. Now that I am past some learning curves (e.g. the language, jargon, syntax of VB and C#) I'm starting to focus on more esoteric topics, as to write better software. A simple question I presented to a fellow coworker was responded with "I'm focusing on the wrong things." While I respect this coworker I do disagree that this is a "wrong thing" to focus upon. Here was the code (in VB) and followed by the question. Note: The Function GenerateAlert() returns an integer. Dim alertID as Integer = GenerateAlert() _errorDictionary.Add(argErrorID, NewErrorInfo(Now(), alertID)) vs... _errorDictionary.Add(argErrorID, New ErrorInfo(Now(), GenerateAlert())) I originally wrote the ladder and rewrote it with the "Dim alertID" so that someone else might find it easier to read. But here was my concern and question. "Should one write this with the Dim AlertID, it would in fact take up more memory; finite but more, and should this method be called many times could it lead to an issue? How will .NET handle this object AlertID. Outside of .NET should one manually dispose of the object after use (near the end of the sub)." I want to ensure I become a knowledgeable programmer that does not just rely upon garbage collection. Am I over thinking this? Am I focusing on the wrong things?

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• When should one use "out" parameters?

  - by qegal

  In Objective-C, there are several methods like initWithContentsOfFile:encoding:error: where one passes in a reference to an NSError object for the error: parameter. In this example, the value of the NSError object passed in can change based on what goes on at runtime when the method is being called and whether the body of the method was executed in a certain way successfully. In a way I think of this NSError object as sort of like a second return value from the method, and only differs from an object anObject in the statement return anObject; in that when this statement is called, execution leaves the method. So my question is, not only in the context of error handling in Objective-C, but in general, when should one use an "out" parameter in place of returning said value in a return statement?

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• Tips or techniques to use when you don't know how to code something?

  - by janoChen

  I have a background as UI designer. And I realized that it is a bit hard for me to write a pieces of logic. Sometimes I get it right, but most of the time, I end up with something hacky (and it usually takes a lot of time). And is not that I don't like programming, in fact, I'm starting to like it as much as design. It's just that sometimes I think that I'm better at dealing with colors an shapes, rather than numbers and logic (but I want to change that). What I usually do is to search the solution on the Internet, copy the example, and insert it into my app (I know this is not a very good practice). I've heard that one tip was to write the logic in common English as comment before writing the actual code. What other tips and techniques I can use?

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• Is deserializing complex objects instead of creating them a good idea, in test setup?

  - by Chris Bye

  I'm writing tests for a component that takes very complex objects as input. These tests are mixes of tests against already existing components, and test-first tests for new features. Instead of re-creating my input objects (this would be a large chunk of code) or reading one from our data store, I had the thought to serialize a live instance of one of these objects, and just deserialize it into test setup. I can't decide if this is a reasonable idea that will save effort in long run, or whether it's the worst idea that I've ever had, causing those that will maintain this code will hunt me down as soon as they read it. Is deserialization of inputs a valid means of test setup in some cases? To give a sense of scale of what I'm dealing with, the size of serialization output for one of these input objects is 93KB. Obtained by, in C#: new BinaryFormatter().Serialize((Stream)fileStream, myObject);

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• Integrated Reporting Is Getting Closer

  - by Evelyn Neumayr

  By John O’Rourke, Vice President, Product Marketing, Oracle Oracle recently sponsored a webcast on CFO.com titled:  The CFO Playbook on Integrated Reporting: Integrating Sustainability into Financial Disclosures which focused on why top companies in the U.S. and overseas are incorporating sustainability content into their annual reports and other financial disclosures.  The webcast speakers, James Margolis, partner with Environmental Resources Management (ERM), a global provider of environmental, health, safety, risk and sustainability consulting services (EHSS) and Mike Wallace, Director of the Global Reporting Initiative's Focal Point USA, discussed the benefits of integrating sustainability reporting with traditional financial reporting. They noted how investors, corporate directors, lenders and most recently, the Securities and Exchange Commission, use this information to better understand, benchmark and value companies. They also talked about the November 2012 release of an Integrated Reporting Framework by the International Integrated Reporting Council (IIRC).  Read the press release and link to the framework here.  The shift towards integrated financial and sustainability reporting is gaining momentum with a number of global stock exchanges endorsing this approach in 2012.  Visit these links to listen to the webcast and download the slides. You can also view a demonstration of Oracle's solution for integrated financial and sustainability reporting. If you’re interested in learning more about this and Oracle’s other sustainability reporting solutions, click here. If you have any questions or need additional information, please feel free to contact me at [email protected].

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• What are the benefits vs costs of comment annotation in PHP?

  - by Patrick

  I have just started working with symfony2 and have run across comment annotations. Although comment annotation is not an inherent part of PHP, symfony2 adds support for this feature. My understanding of commenting is that it should make the code more intelligible to the human. The computer shouldn't care what is in comments. What benefits come from doing this type of annotation versus just putting a command in the normal PHP code? ie- /** * @Route("/{id}") * @Method("GET") * @ParamConverter("post", class="SensioBlogBundle:Post") * @Template("SensioBlogBundle:Annot:post.html.twig", vars={"post"}) * @Cache(smaxage="15") */ public function showAction(Post $post) { }

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• Changes to IT and culture bring new health to MedicAlert.

  - by Oracle Accelerate for Midsize Companies

  Karen Lamoree, COO at MedicAlert Foundation, is featured in this new article, "Changes to IT and Culture Bring New Health to MedicAlert", on Oracle Profit Online. Lamoree also provided perspective on the Growing IT Labor Shortage, posted last month, "The MedicAlert Story: Sustaining Modern IT & Overcoming the IT Labor Shortage in Small Town America."  It's wonderful to see an organization like MedicAlert continue to grow and remain relevant. The company was founded on doing good locally in a small California farming community. It now provides services to 2.3 million members in the United States and another 1.7 million members through its affiliates worldwide.

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• Exalytics Webcast - Extreme Analytics Without Limits

  - by Rob Reynolds

  Event Date: October 18, 2012 Event Time: 11 a.m. PT / 2 p.m. ET If your organization is like most, you grapple with an ongoing struggle to obtain timely and relevant information from your enterprise systems. So, while you may have the data needed to answer key questions, the volume, complexity, and dispersal of that data makes getting those answers tough. Attend this Webcast to learn how the combination of Oracle Exalytics In- Memory Machine and Oracle’s market leading analytic applications enables you to go beyond the traditional boundaries of data analysis and get the insight you need from massive volumes of data – all at the speed of thought. See how you can benefit from running your analytic applications on Oracle Exalytics to: Lower TCO Improve Operational Decision Making and Enhance Competitive Advantage Deliver Speed-of-thought Analysis – Anytime, Anywhere Register today. Learn how Oracle Business Analytics can move your business ahead. Register Here

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• Rules Manager and Expression Filter getting removed

  - by Mike Dietrich

  I doubt that many people are using the Oracle features "Rules Manager" and "Expression Filter" as usually people handle these things (such as ensuring that a zip code or a car number plate has a certain format) within the application code and not inside the database. Oracle Beehive for instance uses that just on the side.  Anyway, just learned today that Rules Manager and Expression Filter components will get removed once our next database release most likely called Oracle Database 12c will get released. So before upgrading to Oracle Database 12c you can remove EXF and RUL components (SELECT COMP_ID FROM DBA_REGISTRY WHERE COMP_ID IN ('EXF','RUL'); ). You'd simply do that by executing the following script before upgrade:SQL> @?/rdbms/admin/catnoexf.sqlThis will clean up Rules Manager and Expression Filter components inside the database. You could run ?/rdbms/admin/catnorul.sql before but I believe catnoexf.sql will clean up everything already. And you'll find all this information plus guidelines for migration of existing content in MOS Note: 1233535.1 - Obsolescence Notice: Rules Manager and Expression Filter Features of Oracle Database -M.

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• Is it a bad practice to include all the enums in one file and use it in multiple classes?

  - by Bugster

  I'm an aspiring game developer, I work on occasional indie games, and for a while I've been doing something which seemed like a bad practice at first, but I really want to get an answer from some experienced programmers here. Let's say I have a file called enumList.h where I declare all the enums I want to use in my game: // enumList.h enum materials_t { WOOD, STONE, ETC }; enum entity_t { PLAYER, MONSTER }; enum map_t { 2D, 3D }; // and so on. // Tile.h #include "enumList.h" #include <vector> class tile { // stuff }; The main idea is that I declare all enums in the game in 1 file, and then import that file when I need to use a certain enum from it, rather than declaring it in the file where I need to use it. I do this because it makes things clean, I can access every enum in 1 place rather than having pages openned solely for accessing one enum. Is this a bad practice and can it affect performance in any way?

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• What is the value of checking in failing unit tests?

  - by Adam W.

  While there are ways of keeping unit tests from being executed, what is the value of checking in failing unit tests? I will use a simple example: Case Sensitivity. The current code is case sensitive. A valid input into the method is "Cat" and it would return an enum of Animal.Cat. However, the desired functionality of the method should not be case sensitive. So if the method described was passed "cat" it could possibly return something like Animal.Null instead of Animal.Cat and the unit test would fail. Though a simple code change would make this work, a more complex issue may take weeks to fix, but identifying the bug with a unit test could be a less complex task. The application currently being analyzed has 4 years of code that "works". However, recent discussions regarding unit tests have found flaws in the code. Some just need explicit implementation documentation (ex. case sensitive or not), or code that does not execute the bug based on how it is currently called. But unit tests can be created executing specific scenarios that will cause the bug to be seen and are valid inputs. What is the value of checking in unit tests that exercise the bug until someone can get around to fixing the code? Should this unit test be flagged with ignore, priority, category etc, to determine whether a build was successful based on tests executed? Eventually the unit test should be created to execute the code once someone fixes it. On one hand it shows that identified bugs have not been fixed. On the other, there could be hundreds of failed unit tests showing up in the logs and weeding through the ones that should fail vs. failures due to a code check-in would be difficult to find.

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• How to make my Oracle update/insert action through Java faster?

  - by gunbuster363

  I am facing a problem in my company that is - our program's speed is not fast enough. To be more specific, we are telecommunication company and this program handle call/internet serfing transaction made by every mobile phone users in our city. Because the amount of download content made by the iphone users is just too much, our program cannot handle them fast enough. The situation is, the amount of transaction made by users are double of the transaction processed by our program. Most of the running time of the program are dominated by DB transactions. I've search through the internet and browsed some sites ( for example: http://www.javaperformancetuning.com/tips/rawtips.shtml ) talking about Java performace in DB, but I cannot find a suggestion suitable for us. These advices are not applicable/already used, for instance: 1. Use prepared statements. Use parameterized SQL Already used prepared statement. Each time will use different parameter by clear parameters and set parameters. 2. Tune the SQL to minimize the data returned (e.g. not 'SELECT *'). Sure, already used. 3. Use connection pooling. We hold a single connection during the program's execution. And I doubt that pooling cannot solve the problem because our program act as 1 user, so there are no problem for concurrent access to DB. If anyone of you think pooling is good, please tell me why. Thanks. 4. Try to combine queries and batch updates. Cannot do it. Every query/insert/update is depend on the database's information. For example, we look up the DB for the client's information, if we cannot find his usage, we insert the usage into DB, otherwise we do update. 5. Close resources (Connections, Statements, ResultSets) when finished Sure. 6. Select the fastest JDBC driver. I don't know. I've search on the internet about the type of driver available and I am very confused. We use oracle.jdbc.driver.OracleDriver and we use thin instead of oci, that's all I know. In addition, our program is a two-tier way ( java <- oracle ) 7. Turn off auto-commit already done that. Looking forwards to any help.

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• Enterprise with eyes on NoSQL

  - by thegreeneman

  Since joining Oracle a few months back, I have had the fortune of being able to interact with a number of large enterprise organizations and discuss their current state of adoption for NoSQL database technology.   It is worth noting that a large percentage of these organizations do have some NoSQL use and have been steadily increasing their understanding of its applicability for certain data management workloads.   Thru those discussions I’ve learned that it seems one of the biggest issues confronting enterprise adoption of NoSQL databases is the lack of standards for access, administration and monitoring.    This was not so much of an issue with the early adopters of NoSQL technology because they employed a highly DevOps centric approach to application deployment leaving a select few highly qualified developers with the task of managing the production of the system that they designed and implemented. However, as NoSQL technology moves out of the startup and into the hands of larger corporate entities, developers with a broad skill set that are capable of both development and I.T. type production management are in short supply and quickly get moved on to do new projects, often moving to different roles within the company.  This difference in the way smaller more agile startups operate as compared to more established companies is revealing a gap in the NoSQL technology segment that needs to get addressed.    This is one of places that a company such as Oracle has a leg up in the NoSQL Database front.  A combination of having gone thru a past database maturization process,  combined with a vast set of corporate relationships that have grown hand in hand to solve these types of issues, Oracle is in a great place to lead the way in closing the requirements gap for NoSQL technology.  Oracle's understanding of the needs specific to mature organizations have already made their way into the Oracle’s NoSQL Database offering with features such as:  One click cluster deployment with visual topology planning,  standards based monitoring protocols such as SNMP, support for data access for reporting via standard SQL  and integration with emerging standards for data access such as MapReduce.  Given the exciting developments we’re driving in the Oracle NoSQL Database group, I will have a lot more to say about this topic as we move into the second half of the year.

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• How should compound words be handled when coding? Is there a definitive list of compound words? [closed]

  - by Ray

  QUESTION: How should you handle compound words when programming? Are there any good lists available online for developers of generally accepted technology-related compound words? I can see how this is highly ambiguous, so should I just use common-sense? EXAMPLE: I would be inclined to do this: filename NOT FileName or login NOT LogIn However, the microsoft documentation indicates that filename is not compound. So I wonder, is there a more definitive source? See also, this english.stackexchange discussion on filename. Under the section "Capitalization Rules for Compound Words and Common Terms" located here: Microsoft .NET Capitalization Conventions only offers a limited introduction into the topic, and leaves it up to the developer to use their intuition with the rest.

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• Storing Tiled Level Data in J2ME game

  - by Alex

  I'm developing a J2ME game which uses tiled backgrounds for the levels. My question is how do I store this tile information in my game. At the moment it is stored as an array; with each number representing a different tile from the tile-sheet. This works well enough, however I don't like the fact that it is 'hard-coded' into the game because (at least in my opinion) it is harder to edit the levels, or design new ones. I was also thinking that it would be difficult if you wanted to add a 'level pack', I'm not sure on how this would be achieved though; it's not something I was planning on doing, I'm just curious. I was wondering if there was a way I could store level data in some external file and then load this in to the game. The problem is I don't know what the limitations are for J2ME regarding file I/O, can it read in any file like Java? I am aware of the RMS, but from my experience I don't think this would work (unless I am mistaken). Also, would loading the data in this way be too big a performance hit? Or is there another way I can achieve what I am trying to do. As I said, the way I have it at the moment works fine, and if this is the only viable option then it will suffice.

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• Summit 2014 Registration Is Open

  - by KemButller

  Attention Oracle (employees) Field Team and Oracle JD Edwards Partners REGISTRATION IS NOW OPEN for Oracle's 5th Annual JD Edwards Summit - Monday, January 27th through Friday, January 31st, 2014, in Broomfield, Colorado. The theme of this year's Summit is "Success Through Continued Innovation”.  Our goals are to update you on our current and future product roadmap, new products, selling strategies for new prospects, growing the footprint in our JD Edwards install base, as well as providing a venue for networking.  The JD Edwards Summit is to the selling and servicing community what COLLABORATE is to the user community.  This is a MUST ATTEND event if you recommend, sell, implement and/or support the JD Edwards product, whether you are new to JD Edwards or a seasoned pro, an executive, account executive, in presales or in consulting.  The Summit promises a content-rich and unique networking experience for all attendees. Highlights include:  Monday afternoon kicks off the Summit with a variety of workshops as well as an afternoon preview of the Sponsor Showcase.  Start your networking at the Summit kickoff party Monday evening. Tuesday morning features several informative keynotes in the Summit General Assembly followed by key messages delivered in Super Sessions in the afternoon, focused on each of the JD Edwards community audiences. The educational offerings continue on Wednesday and Thursday with over 90 breakout sessions on topics spanning technology, applications (core JD Edwards, Edge, Fusion), Sales, Presales and Implementation. Friday concludes with new workshops for the implementation community.A Attendees will be enriched with numerous opportunities to network with fellow partners and Oracle throughout the week.  Consider bringing your team and using this venue to hold your own organization kickoff meeting prior to or post Summit. Contact Sheila Ebbitt (Sheila.ebbitt@oracle-DOT-com) for further assistance with your planning.  Attendees will be charged a Summit fee of US$ 250. Online registration cut-off is January 17, 2014. All registration requests after that time will be processed on-site at the event with an attendee fee of US$ 500. Please contact Rene Chapman (rene.chapman@oracle-DOT-com) for information on sponsorship opportunities. For further details on the JD Edwards Summit including agenda, workshops, educational sessions, lodging,  sponsors and Summit registration, click here! Register now! This is going to be an awesome event! John Schiff Vice President JD Edwards Business Development 

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• What is the term for a really BIG source code commit?

  - by Ida

  Sometimes when we check the commit history of a software, we may see that there are a few commits that are really BIG - they may change 10 or 20 files with hundreds of changed source code lines (delta). I remember that there is a commonly used term for such BIG commit but I can't recall exactly what that term is. Can anyone help me? What is the term that programmers usually use to refer to such BIG and giant commit? BTW, is committing a lot of changes all together a good practice? UPDATE: thank you guys for the inspiring discussion! But I think "code bomb" is the term that I'm looking for.

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• Event Driven Programming 101

  - by JHarley1

  Good Morning, I previously asked the Q. of how Event Handlers Work (which I got a great answer for). I would now like to understand the basics of how are events are associated with on-screen objects? An explanation of how Events are associated with on Screen Objects: The application registers the Event, the Event Handler and the Component with the GUI Server. When an Event is detected the GUI Server has to link an Event to a Window and then to a Component, it then consults the Event / Component Table to identify which Handler (s) to be executed. I am having problems finding resources/papers that have mention of this process - especially of a Event / Component Table - can anyone clarify?

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• Two New CRM USER Communities just launched

  - by Divya Malik

  Here comes an announcement from Chris Gallen, from our Support Services team. For those of you who are EBS CRM users, here are two new recently launched communities that are now available to discuss topics that are important to you. These communities are for Sales & Marketing and  Telesales  The Sales & Marketing community is open to discuss a wide range of topics from Oracle Sales, Sales Online, Territory Management, Partner Management, Leads Management, Sales Offline, Sales for Handhelds, Sales Foundation, and Oracle Marketing. Some possible topics include Oracle Sales Implementations, TCA and DQM Integrations, Territory Management Setups and Definitions, Product Catalog Integrations, Sales Forecasting, Lead and Opportunity management, Sales Manager and Sales User responsibilities and Reports, Resource Management including Roles and Groups, Oracle Sales Personalizations, Concurrent Requests for Sales Reps and Sales Manager Dashboards, Integration with Quoting, Proposals, General Ledger, Advanced Product Catalog, CRM Resource Administration, etc. The Telesales community is available to discuss topics such as Customer/Org/Person/Party Relationships, TCA/DQM Integration, Lead and Opportunity Management, Universal Work Queue, Universal Search Features, Purchase Items/Product Integration, eBusiness Center Setup Issues, Interactions, Tasks and Notes Integrations, and Form Personalizations. How Can You Get Started? Here are the two ways to get engaged. A) Click here to access all our communities  OR B) My Oracle Support as follows: Log into My Oracle Support (Flash or Classic).                                                                                                                           Click the "Community" link at the top of the page. Click [Enter Here] on the following page. Select the community from the "My Communities" list on the top-left. Take advantage TODAY!

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• Is it bad practise to call a controller action from a view that was rendered by another controller?

  - by marco-fiset

  Let's say I have an OrderController which handles orders. The user adds products to it through the view, and then the final price gets calculated through an AJAX call to a controller action. The price calculation logic is implemented in a seperate class and used in a controller action. What happens is that I have many views from different controllers that need to use that particular action. I'd like to have some kind of a PriceController that I could call an action on. But then the view would have to know about that PriceController and call an action on it. Is it bad practice for a view to call an action on a different controller from which it was rendered?

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• Can the "Documents" standard folder be rescued and how?

  - by romkyns

  Anyone who likes their Documents folder to contain only things they place there knows that the standard Documents folder is completely unsuitable for this task. Every program seems to want to put its settings, data, or something equally irrelevant into the Documents folder, despite the fact that there are folders specifically for this job. So that this doesn't sound empty, take my personal "Documents" folder as an example. I don't ever use it, in that I never, under any circumstances, save anything into this folder myself. And yet, it contains 46 folders and 3 files at the top level, for a total of 800 files in 500 folders. That's 190 MB of "documents" I didn't create. Obviously any actual documents would immediately get lost in this mess. My question is: can anything be done to improve the situation sufficiently to make "Documents" useful again, say over the next 5 years? Can programmers be somehow educated en-masse not to use it as a dumping ground? Could the OS start reporting some "fake" location hidden under AppData through the existing APIs, while only allowing Explorer and the various Open/Save dialogs to know where the "real" Documents folder resides? Or are any attempts completely futile or even unnecessary?

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