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  • Java game design question (graphical objects)

    - by vemalsar
    Hello Guys, I'm beginner in game development, in Java and here on this site too and I have a game design question. Please comment my idea: I have a main loop which call update and draw method. I want to use an ArrayList which store graphical objects, they have coordinate and image or text to draw and my game objects extends this class. In update, I can choose which objects should be put in the array and in draw method I'll display the elements of array on the screen. I'm using a buffer and draw first there, but it is not important now I guess...Here is a simple (not full) code, only the logic: public class GamePanel extends JPanel implements KeyListener { ArrayList<graphicalObjects> graphArray = new ArrayList<graphicalObjects>(); public void update() { //change the game scene, update the graphArray, process input etc. } public void draw() { //draws every element of graphArray to a JPanel } public static main(String[] args) { while(true) { update(); draw(); } } } My questions: Should have I use interface or abstract class for graphicalObjects? graphicalObjects class and the ArrayList really needs or there is some better solution? How to draw objects? They draw themself with their own method or in the draw method I have to draw manually based on graphicalObjects variables (x,y coordinates, image etc.)? If this conception is wrong, please suggest another one! All comments are welcome and sorry if this is dumb question, thanks!

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  • Include in service layer all the application's functions or only the reusable ones?

    - by BornToCode
    Background: I need to build a main application with some operations (CRUD and more) (-in winforms), I need to make another application which will re-use some of the functions of the main application (-in webforms). I understood that using service layer is the best approach here. If I understood correctly the service should be calling the function on the BL layer (correct me if I'm wrong) The dilemma: In my main winform UI - should I call the functions from the BL, or from the service? (please explain why) Should I create a service for every single function on the BL even if I need some of the functions only in one UI? for example - should I create services for all the CRUD operations, even though I need to re-use only update operation in the webform? YOUR HELP IS MUCH APPRECIATED

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  • SDL - Getting a single keypress event instead of a keystate?

    - by MrKatSwordfish
    Right now I'm working on a simple SDL project, but I've hit an issue when trying to get a single keypress event to skip past a splash screen. Right now, there are 4 start-up splash screens that I would like to be able to skip with a single keypress (of any key). My issue is that, as of now, if I hold down a key, it skips through each splash screen to the very last one immediately. The splash screens are stored as an array of SDL surfaces which are all loaded at the initialization of the state. I have an variable called currentSplashImage that controls which element of the array is being rendered on the screen. I've set it up so that whenever there's a SDL_KEYDOWN event, it triggers a single incrementation of the currentSplashImage variable. So, I'm really not sure why my code isn't working correctly. For some reason, when I hold down a button, it seems to be treating the held button as a new key press event every time it ticks through the code. Does anyone know how I can go about fixing this issue? [Here's a snippet of code that I've been using...] void SplashScreenState::handleEvents() { SDL_PollEvent( &localEvent ); if ( localEvent.type == SDL_KEYDOWN ) { if ( currentSplashImage < 3 && currentSplashImage >= 0) { currentSplashImage++; } } else if ( localEvent.type == SDL_QUIT ) { smgaEngine.setRunning(false); } } I should also mention that the SDL_Event 'localEvent' is part of the GameState parent class, while this event handling code is part of a SplashScreenState subclass. If anyone knows why this is happening, or if there is any way to improve my code, It'd be helpful to me! :D I'm still a very new programmer, trying to learn. UPDATE: I added a std::cout line to that the code runs multiple times with a single KEYDOWN event. I also tried disabling SDL_EnableKeyRepeat, but it didn't fix the issue. void SplashScreenState::handleEvents() { SDL_PollEvent( &localEvent ); if ( localEvent.type == SDL_KEYDOWN ) { if ( currentSplashImage < 3 && currentSplashImage >= 0) { currentSplashImage++; std::cout << "KEYDOWN.."; //<---- test cout line } } else if ( localEvent.type == SDL_QUIT ) { smgaEngine.setRunning(false); } } This prints out "KEYDOWN..KEYDOWN..KEYDOWN.." in the cout stream when a button is held.

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  • Two components offering the same functionality, required by different dependencies

    - by kander
    I'm building an application in PHP, using Zend Framework 1 and Doctrine2 as the ORM layer. All is going well. Now, I happened to notice that both ZF1 and Doctrine2 come with, and rely on, their own caching implementation. I've evaluated both, and while each has its own pro's and cons, neither of them stand out as superior to the other for my simple needs. Both libraries also seem to be written against their respective interfaces, not their implementations. Reasons why I feel this is an issue is that during the bootstrapping of my application, I have to configure two caching drivers - each with its own syntax. A mismatch is easily created this way, and it feels inefficient to set up two connections to the caching backend because of this. I'm trying to determine what the best way forward is, and would welcome any insights you may be able to offer. What I've thought up so far are four options: Do nothing, accept that two classes offering caching functionality are present. Create a Facade class to stick Zend's interface onto Doctrine's caching implementation. Option 2, the other way around - create a Facade to map Doctrine's interface on a Zend Framework backend. Use multiple-interface-inheritance to create one interface to rule them all, and pray that there aren't any overlaps (ie: if both have a "save" method, they'll need to accept params in the same order due to PHP's lack of proper polymorphism). What option is best, or is there a "None of the above" variant that I'm not aware of?

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  • Complex event system for DungeonKeeper like game

    - by paul424
    I am working on opensource GPL3 game. http://opendungeons.sourceforge.net/ , new coders would be welcome. Now there's design question regarding Event System: We want to improve the game logic, that is program a new event system. I will just repost what's settled up already on http://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=3033. From the discussion came the idea of the Publisher / Subscriber pattern + "domains": My current idea is to use the subscirbers / publishers model. Its similar to Observable pattern, but instead one subscribes to Events types, not Object's Events. For each Event would like to have both static and dynamic type. Static that is its's type would be resolved by belonging to the proper inherited class from Event. That is from Event we would have EventTile, EventCreature, EvenMapLoader, EventGameMap etc. From that there are of course subtypes like EventCreature would be EventKobold, EventKnight, EventTentacle etc. The listeners would collect the event from publishers, and send them subcribers , each of them would be a global singleton. The Listeners type hierachy would exactly mirror the type hierarchy of Events. In each constructor of Event type, the created instance would notify the proper listeners. That is when calling EventKnight the proper ctor would notify the Listeners : EventListener, CreatureLisener and KnightListener. The default action for an listner would be to notify all subscribers, but there would be some exceptions , like EventAttack would notify AttackListener which would dispatch event by the dynamic part ( that is the Creature pointer or hash). Any comments ? #include <vector> class Subscriber; class SubscriberAttack; class Event{ private: int foo; int bar; protected: // static std::vector<Publisher*> publishersList; static std::vector<Subscriber*> subscribersList; static std::vector<Event*> eventQueue; public: Event(){ eventQueue.push_back(this); } static int subscribe(Subscriber* ss); static int unsubscribe(Subscriber* ss); //static int reg_publisher(Publisher* pp); //static int unreg_publisher(Publisher* pp); }; // class Publisher{ // }; class Subscriber{ public: int (*newEvent) (Event* ee); Subscriber( ){ Event::subscribe(this); } Subscriber( int (*fp) (Event* ee) ):newEvent(fp){ Subscriber(); } ~Subscriber(){ Event::unsubscribe(this); } }; class EventAttack: Event{ private: int foo; int bar; protected: // static std::vector<Publisher*> publishersList; static std::vector<SubscriberAttack*> subscribersList; static std::vector<EventAttack*> eventQueue; public: EventAttack(){ eventQueue.push_back(this); } static int subscribe(SubscriberAttack* ss); static int unsubscribe(SubscriberAttack* ss); //static int reg_publisher(Publisher* pp); //static int unreg_publisher(Publisher* pp); }; class AttackSubscriber :Subscriber{ public: int (*newEvent) (EventAttack* ee); AttackSubscriber( ){ EventAttack::subscribe(this); } AttackSubscriber( int (*fp) (EventAttack* ee) ):newEventAttack(fp){ AttackSubscriber(); } ~AttackSubscriber(){ EventAttack::unsubscribe(this); } }; From that point, others wanted the Subject-Observer pattern, that is one would subscribe to all event types produced by particular object. That way it came out to add the domain system : Huh, to meet the ability to listen to particular game's object events, I though of introducing entity domains . Domains are trees, which nodes are labeled by unique names for each level. ( like the www addresses ). Each Entity wanting to participate in our event system ( that is be able to publish / produce events ) should at least now its domain name. That would end up in Player1/Room/Treasury/#24 or Player1/Creature/Kobold/#3 producing events. The subscriber picks some part of a tree. For example by specifiing subtree with the root in one of the nodes like Player1/Room/* ,would subscribe us to all Players1's room's event, and Player1/Creature/Kobold/#3 would subscribe to Players' third kobold's event. Does such event system make sense to you ? I have many implementation details to ask as well, but first let's start some general discussion. Note1: Notice that in the case of a fight between two creatues fight , the creature being attacked would have to throw an event, becuase it is HE/SHE/IT who have its domain address. So that would be BeingAttackedEvent() etc. I will edit that post if some other reflections on this would come out. Note2: the existing class hierarchy might be used to get the domains addresses being build in constructor . In a ctor you would just add + ."className" to domain address. If you are in a class'es hierarchy leaf constructor one might use nextID , hash or any other charactteristic, just to make the addresses distinguishable . Note3:subscribing to all entity's Events would require knowledge of all possible events produced by this entity . This could be done in one function call, but information on E produced would have to be handled for every Entity. SmartNote4 : Finding proper subscribers in a tree would be easy. One would start in particular Leaf for example Player1/Creature/Kobold/#3 and go up one parent a time , notifiying each Subscriber in a Node ie. : Player1/Creature/Kobold/* , Player1/Creature/* , Player1/* etc, , up to a root that is /* .<<<< Note5: The Event system was needed to have some way of incorporating Angelscript code into application. So the Event dispatcher was to be a gate to A-script functions. But it came out to this one.

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  • Getting into the details of game engine programming

    - by Darkslash
    I am interested in learning game programming, but I really have an interest in the lower level engineering in games. I have OpenGL experience, and I am really interested in learning more about implementing AI, Physics, etc. I have a computer science degree, so I really like getting into technical stuff. Many times when I ask about this sort of thing, I get a lot of "Use an engine", "Use Unity3d", "Why waste your time writing code that already exists", etc, etc. My idea was to use simpler libraries such as SFML or XNA so that I could learn how to implement the more complex systems. The thing is, although I do want to write games, I want to learn things that using something like Unity simply doesn't teach you. My goal is not to make a current generation quality 3D game to sell, I just want to make some cool smaller games and learn all I can about the programming side of game development. Is this something that people just do not do anymore? It seems like everywhere I turn people are using Unity or UDK or GameMaker. I fully understand why you would use a tool like these, but I cant see how they would suit my purposes. So where does someone like myself turn? Am I trying to learn something that people just do not bother doing anymore? Is the innovation in this area gone and just all about gameplay now? I'm sorry if this question seems silly, but I am genuinely interested in knowing more about this and meeting more people who are interested in this sort of thing.

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  • Are changes to the date and time logged in Windows Server?

    - by user17605
    We've recently gone into British Summer Time in the UK. One of our techs, anticipating the move, decided to change the time on one of our servers. Bad move. This server happens to have a number of time-based incidents logged to it, and as a result of this change, the times are unreliable. I'm trying to build a concrete timeline of when the clock was changed so I can apply corrective action to our time-based records. My question is:- Does Windows record date and time changes anywhere so I can get hard, actual data? Thanks

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  • What do you do when the code isn't complicated enough?

    - by Chris
    After six months of development on a project, our stakeholders have had a "gut check" and have decided that the path that we've been walking (a custom designed application framework and data access layer) is holding us (the developers) back from quickly developing the features they would like to see. After several days of debate management and the development team have decided to scrap the current incarnation and start over using ASP.net MVC, with Entity Framework as the bases of the a 'quick and dirty', lets just get it done project. In days following, our senior developer who has never worked with MVC or Entity Framework has finally gotten into a sample project and done some work. His take on ASP.net MVC, "this is not software engineering". So my question is this; what do you do, when one doesn't think the code is complicated enough?

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  • Where can I find good (well organized) examples of game code?

    - by smasher
    Where can I find good (well organized) examples of game code? I'm hoping that I can pick up some organizational tips. Most examples in books are too short and leave out lots of detail for the sake of brevity. I'm particularly interested on how to group your variables and methods so that another programmer would know where to look in the code. For example initializers at the top, then methods that take input, then methods that update views. I don't care about a particular language, as long as its OOP. I looked at the Quake 2 and 3 sources, but they're straight C and not much help for getting tips on organizing your objects. So, have you seen some good source? Any pointers to code that makes you say "wow, that's well organized" would be great.

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  • If I am developing a hosted payments page, what should the infrastructure look like?

    - by marcamillion
    If I am not storing credit card info, do I have to be concerned with PCI-compliance? I will be using a payment processor with a bank in my country. Literally just taking the credit card info and passing it to the gateway and processor. I would love to get an idea of the various technologies I might need to consider from an software architectural point of view. What are the best practices in terms of accepting credit cards and reducing fraud risk on my end? I will be creating the app in Rails.

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  • Inventory Consignment Flow

    - by ipohfly
    Not sure whether this is the right place to ask this question, but here goes.. Currently I have requirement to add support for consignment transaction in our inventory module. I have a very limited understanding of what consignment means in inventory, i.e. Customer get stocks/products from Seller without actually buying them, the product just resides in the Customer's inventory and it's still owned by the Seller. Only when the Customer actually buy the stocks then only will the ownership of the stock is transferred. The issue is i can't imagine how the data will be presented to both the Customer and the Seller. What i know is that i would need to deduct the stock from the Seller's inventory when the Customer raise a request to get the stock through consignment, but what about the 'ownership' of the stocks/products? Does that mean i would need to create another column in my table to state that for each inventory it is owned by who? Anywhere i can get information on how i should work out an inventory module like this? Thanks.

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  • How does the "Last Result" column of Scheduled Tasks in Windows Server 2003 get set from a process or script?

    - by leeand00
    The Last Result column of the Scheduled Tasks Window on Windows Server 2003, displays the result of the execution of the .exe, .vbs, .ps1, .bat, .cmd, etc... that has been run at the scheduled time. There is also an archived history of this value that appears in the Scheduled Tasks Log (Found on the Scheduled Tasks Window under the Advanced->View Log) Now my question is, if I'm running a scheduled task that is a .exe, .vbs, .ps1, .bat, .cmd, etc... how do I use that process to return a specific Last Result when the process ends? P.S. If you think this question should be split up into smaller parts since I'm painting pretty broadly with it, just let me know and I'll split it into subsequent smaller questions

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  • Question about modeling with MVC (the pattern, not the MS stuff / non web)

    - by paul
    I'm working on an application in which I'm looking to employ the MVC pattern, but I've come up against a design decision point I could use some help with. My application is going to deal with the design of state-machines. Currently the MVC model holds information about the machine's states, inputs, outputs, etc. The view is going to show a diagram for the machine, graphically allowing the user to add new states, establish transitions, and put the states in a pleasing arrangement, among other things. I would like to store part of the diagram's state (e.g. the x and y state positions) when the machine information is stored for later retrieval, and am wondering how best to go about structuring the model(s?) for this. It seems like this UI information is more closely related to the view than to the state-machine model, so I was thinking that a secondary model might be in order, but I am reluctant to pursue this route because of the added complexity. Adding this information to the current model doesn't seem the right way to go about it either. This is the my first time using the MVC pattern so I'm still figuring things out. Any input would be appreciated.

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  • Stop myself from over-complicating applications

    - by stuartmclark
    Recently I worked on a fairly large project involving C# and MVVM. This application had around 160 projects in the solutions each seprarated into their own layers. As I have been working on this application for almost a year, building it from scratch as part of a team, I am now coming off that project and onto smaller more trivial projects. As I was beginning to develop a small in-house tool I found myself trying to mimic the larger applications structure and layering but in the end I just had a simple application with several DLLs which I know I wouldn't have done if I had not worked on that larger application before. I am just wondering if there are any techniques I can utilise to stop myself from turning a "code-behind" style trivial application into a full blown MVVM application? Or should I continue developing as I am and try to keep the unnecessary fluff out of the project?

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  • Could I be going crazy with Event Handlers? Am I going the "wrong way" with my design?

    - by sensae
    I guess I've decided that I really like event handlers. I may be suffering a bit from analysis paralysis, but I'm concerned about making my design unwieldy or running into some other unforeseen consequence to my design decisions. My game engine currently does basic sprite-based rendering with a panning overhead camera. My design looks a bit like this: SceneHandler Contains a list of classes that implement the SceneListener interface (currently only Sprites). Calls render() once per tick, and sends onCameraUpdate(); messages to SceneListeners. InputHandler Polls the input once per tick, and sends a simple "onKeyPressed" message to InputListeners. I have a Camera InputListener which holds a SceneHandler instance and triggers updateCamera(); events based on what the input is. AgentHandler Calls default actions on any Agents (AI) once per tick, and will check a stack for any new events that are registered, dispatching them to specific Agents as needed. So I have basic sprite objects that can move around a scene and use rudimentary steering behaviors to travel. I've gotten onto collision detection, and this is where I'm not sure the direction my design is going is good. Is it a good practice to have many, small event handlers? I imagine going the way I am that I'd have to implement some kind of CollisionHandler. Would I be better off with a more consolidated EntityHandler which handles AI, collision updates, and other entity interactions in one class? Or will I be fine just implementing many different event handling subsystems which pass messages to each other based on what kind of event it is? Should I write an EntityHandler which is simply responsible for coordinating all these sub event handlers? I realize in some cases, such as my InputHandler and SceneHandler, those are very specific types of events. A large portion of my game code won't care about input, and a large portion won't care about updates that happen purely in the rendering of the scene. Thus I feel my isolation of those systems is justified. However, I'm asking this question specifically approaching game logic type events.

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  • Several classes need to access the same data, where should the data be declared?

    - by Juicy
    I have a basic 2D tower defense game in C++. Each map is a separate class which inherits from GameState. The map delegates the logic and drawing code to each object in the game and sets data such as the map path. In pseudo-code the logic section might look something like this: update(): for each creep in creeps: creep.update() for each tower in towers: tower.update() for each missile in missiles: missile.update() The objects (creeps, towers and missiles) are stored in vector-of-pointers. The towers must have access to the vector-of-creeps and the vector-of-missiles to create new missiles and identify targets. The question is: where do I declare the vectors? Should they be members of the Map class, and passed as arguments to the tower.update() function? Or declared globally? Or are there other solutions I'm missing entirely?

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  • When to unload graphics object from main memory?

    - by piotrek
    I writing my resource mangaer, and I consider about how it can work for graphics objects (like textures, meshes). I think about this : I want to load texture (in pseudocode): Texture t = resMgr.GetTex("image.png"); and GetTex make something like this: load texture from disk to main memory create texture object (load it to gpu memory) unload texture from main memory I consider about 3 step, does game engines that you know unload meshes/textures after load them into gpu memory ?

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  • What's the right/standard way of achieving separation of concerns?

    - by Ghanima
    Some background: I want to start developing games, and taking some of the advice given in this site, I've started with something simple and familiar, such as pong, tetris, etc. I want to take as much time as needed to make sure that I have the basics right before moving on to something bigger. I have medium programming experience but I realize making games is a different thing. I find myself wondering many things like should this be in a separate class? Should this module handle this stuff or is it better to let other modules have that kind of functionality? For example, the bouncing of a ball in pong, right now is handled in the ball module, but maybe it's better that some other module did it. Right now I have different modules: one for the graphics, one for the game logic, and others for the objects (depending on the kind of movement required, not all the objects are alike). I know I am asking a lot, any tips you have will be very much appreciated. Short question: What's the right or standard way of separating the modules? What have you found most effective? Is it enough to just keep the drawing (graphics) and the logic separate? Is it necessary to have a lot of classes? (for example for the objects in the game, to handle the movement, etc)

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  • What are the benefits of NoSQL?

    - by geekbrit
    I'm struggling to see how NoSQL brings any advantages to a system, so I'm interested in hearing from people who have chosen to use it, both the reasons they chose NoSQL, and positive and negative experiences in implementation and use. My first impressions are that NoSQL is a product of the availability of very large, very cheap storage; it seems that a million record database could easily have a 100MByte overhead in field labels embedded in the records. This goes against one of my software design instincts - remove redundancy in code and data whenever practical. However, NoSQL is being used with success in large high-traffic systems, so I must be missing something, looking forward to your responses.

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  • Entity communication: Message queue vs Publish/Subscribe vs Signal/Slots

    - by deft_code
    How do game engine entities communicate? Two use cases: How would entity_A send a take-damage message to entity_B? How would entity_A query entity_B's HP? Here's what I've encountered so far: Message queue entity_A creates a take-damage message and posts it to entity_B's message queue. entity_A creates a query-hp message and posts it to entity_B. entity_B in return creates an response-hp message and posts it to entity_A. Publish/Subscribe entity_B subscribes to take-damage messages (possibly with some preemptive filtering so only relevant message are delivered). entity_A produces take-damage message that references entity_B. entity_A subscribes to update-hp messages (possibly filtered). Every frame entity_B broadcasts update-hp messages. Signal/Slots ??? entity_A connects an update-hp slot to entity_B's update-hp signal. Something better? Do I have a correct understanding of how these communication schemes would tie into a game engine's entity system? How do entities in commercial game engines communicate?

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  • What do you do when one think the code isn't complicated enough?

    - by Chris
    After six months of development on a project, our stakeholders have had a "gut check" and have decided that the path that we've been walking (a custom designed application framework and data access layer) is holding us (the developers) back from quickly developing the features they would like to see. After several days of debate management and the development team have decided to scrap the current incarnation and start over using ASP.net MVC, with Entity Framework as the bases of the a 'quick and dirty', lets just get it done project. In days following, our senior developer who has never worked with MVC or Entity Framework has finally gotten into a sample project and done some work. His take on ASP.net MVC, "this is not software engineering". So my question is this; what do you do, when one doesn't think the code is complicated enough?

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  • How is it possible to write the compiler of a programming language with that language itself [closed]

    - by tugberk
    Possible Duplicate: How could the first C++ compiler be written in C++? You probably heard that Microsoft released a new language called TypeScript which is a the typed superset of JavaScript. The most interesting thing that makes me wonder is the fact that its compiler writen in TypeScript itself. Call me ignorant but I really couldn't figure out in my head how that is possible. This is just like chicken and egg problem in my head because there is no compiler to compile TypeScript's compiler in the first place. How is it possible to write a compiler of the compiler of a programming language with that language?

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  • How do I troubleshoot a page not found error when configuring IIS6 Windows Server 2003? [Page Not Found]

    - by Vinicius Ottoni
    I have configured IIS6 in my windows server 2003 with this link: http://www.simongibson.com/intranet/iis6/ After that I create a new web site inside Web Sites directory. Inside the physical path I created an index.htm that has: <html> <body>Test</body> </html> But I got the following error: "The page cannot be found". When I put the same index file inside the Web Site Default physical path, it works. I configured the new web site with the link above using the IP configuration and without a Host Header.' What should I do to troubleshoot this or is there an obvious configuration error?

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  • Motivation for a service layer (instead of just copying dlls)?

    - by BornToCode
    I'm creating an application which has 2 different UIs so I'm making it with a service layer which I understood is appropriate for such scenario. However I found myself just creating web methods for every single method I have in the BL layer, so the services basically built from methods that looks like this: return customers_bl.Get_Customer_Prices(customer_id); I understood that a main point of the service layer is to prevent duplication of code so I asked myself - why not just import the BL.DLL (and the dal.dll) to the other UI, and whenever making a change re-copy the dlls, it might not be so 'neat', but still less hassle than one more layer? {I know something is wrong in my approach, I'm probably missing the importance of service layer, I'd like to get more motivation to create another layer, especially because as it is I found that many of my BL functions ALREADY looks like: return customers_dal.Get_Customer_Prices(cust_id) which led me to ask: was it really necessary to create the BL just because on several functions I actually have LOGIC inside the BL?} so I'm looking for more motivation to creating ONE MORE layer, I'm sure it's not just to make it more convenient that I won't have to re-copy the dlls on changes? Am I grasping it wrong? Any simple guidelines on how to design service layer (corresponding to all the BL layer functions or not? any simple example?) any enlightenment on the subject?

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  • Motivation for service layer (instead of just copying dlls)?

    - by BornToCode
    I'm creating an application which has 2 different UIs so I'm making it with a service layer which I understood is appropriate for such case. However I found myself just creating web methods for every single method I have in the BL layer, so the services basically built from methods that looks like this: return customers_bl.Get_Customer_Prices(customer_id); I understood that a main point of the service layer is to prevent duplication of code so I asked myself - well, why not just import the BL.dll (and the DAL.dll) to the other UI, and whenever making a change re-copy the dll files, it might not be so 'neat', but is the all purpose of the service layer to prevent this? {I know something is wrong in my approach, I'm probably missing the importance of service layer, I'd like to get more motivation to create another layer, especially because as it is I found that many of my BL functions ALREADY looks like: return customers_dal.Get_Customer_Prices(cust_id) which led me to ask: was it really necessary to create the BL just because on several functions I actually have LOGIC inside the BL?} so I'm looking for more motivation to creating ONE MORE layer, I'm sure it's not just to make it more convenient that I won't have to re-copy the dlls on changes? Am I grasping it wrong? Any simple guidelines on how to design service layer (corresponding to all the BL layer functions or not? any simple example?) any enlightenment on the subject?

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