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• compatibility test on MDS

  - by wildchild

  how to perform compatibility test on Cisco MDS switch and fabric manager. Or on raid controller card.

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• Possible automated Bing Ads fraud?

  - by Gary Joynes

  I run a website that generates life insurance leads. The site is very simple a) there is a form for capturing the user's details, life insurance requirements etc b) A quote comparison feature We drive traffic to our site using conventional Google Adwords and Bing Ads campaigns. Since the 6th January we have received 30-40 dodgy leads which have the following in common: All created between 2 and 8 AM Phone number always in the format "123 1234 1234' Name, Date Of Birth, Policy details, Address all seem valid and are unique across the leads Email addresses from "disposable" email accounts including dodgit.com, mailinator.com, trashymail.com, pookmail.com Some leads come from the customer form, some via the quote comparison feature All come from different IP addresses We get the keyword information passed through from the URLs All look to be coming from Bing Ads All come from Internet Explorer v7 and v8 The consistency of the data and the random IP addresses seem to suggest an automated approach but I'm not sure of the intent. We can handle identifying these leads within our database but is there anyway of stopping this at the Ad level i.e. before the click through.

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• Will multivariate (A/B) testing applied with 302 redirects to a subdomain affect my Google ranking?

  - by Lior

  I want to do an A B test of an entire site for a new design and UX with only slight changes in content (a big brand site that has good Google rankings for many generic keywords. My idea of implementation is doing a 302 redirect to the new version (placing it on www1 subdomain) and allowing only user agents of known browsers to pass. The test version will have disallow all in the robots text. Will Google treat this favorably or do I have to use Google Website Optimizer (which will give me tracking headaches)?

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• What we have to measure for measuring server performance If we can't measure the server processing time from client side?

  - by AsadYarKhan

  If we can not measure the server processing time from client side then which attributes will be good to measure in client side for measuring server side performance and What attributes are important ? I know we can get the server response time, latency and Throughput etc,but how do we understand/interpret the result of server side from these attrubutes. How can we analyse that whether my code is taking lots of time,whether Web Server, whether it is because of Server Machine(H/W).how would i know that which thing needs to be upgrade or improve.Please tell me any article or any book something that I need to study or explain here If you can so I can interpret the result of server side using these attributes response time, latency and throughput.You can tell other performance attribute if I need to understand the server result.

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• Join Us!! Live Webinar: Using UPK for Testing

  - by Di Seghposs

  Create Manual Test Scripts 50% Faster with Oracle User Productivity Kit  Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:00 am – 12:00 pm ET Click here to register now for this informative webinar. Oracle UPK enhances the testing phase of the implementation lifecycle by reducing test plan creation time, improving accuracy, and providing the foundation for reusable training documentation, application simulations, and end-user performance support—all critical assets to support an enterprise application implementation. With Oracle UPK: Reduce manual test plan development time - Accelerate the testing cycle by significantly reducing the time required to create the test plan. Improve test plan accuracy - Capture test steps automatically using Oracle UPK and import those steps directly to any of these testing suites eliminating many of the errors that occur when writing manual tests. Create the foundation for reusable assets - Recorded simulations can be used for other lifecycle phases of the project, such as knowledge transfer for training and support. With its integration to Oracle Application Testing Suite, IBM Rational, and HP Quality Center, Oracle UPK allows you to deploy high-quality applications quickly and effectively by providing a consistent, repeatable process for gathering requirements, planning and scheduling tests, analyzing results, and managing  issues. Join this live webinar and learn how to decrease your time to deployment and enhance your testing plans today! 

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• How to conduct A/B split testing with AdSense?

  - by None

  Ok so I have decided to A/B test my AdSense ads. I have run a few tests, but I don't know what conclusion to draw and how to keep track of things. Some specific questions: If I have 2 test units, 1 wins. I test that with a new and so on. How do I find if say the fifth one did better than the first one? How do I keep track of things? Do I let the variables independent of each other, because they certainly are not. In real life, font size can affect CTR even if the colors are different. I can test blue color with red color, and then test Arial font with Georgia, but how do I know which combination is the best? This would result in way too many test units. I tried Googling a lot, but I could not find answers to these questions.

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• How can I determine Breaking point of my Web application using JMeter?

  - by Gopu Alakrishna

  How can I determine Breaking point of my Web application using JMeter? I have executed the JMeter Testplan with different concurrent users load. EX. 300 users(0% error), 400 users(7% error in a sample, 5% error in another sample), 500 users(more than 10% error in 4 out of 6 samples). At What value of % Error, I can say system reached the Breaking point.I used concurrent users 300, 400, 500 in a PHP website. Should I consider any other parameter to determine breaking point. How many maximum concurrent users my application can support?

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• Any pre-rolled System.IO abstraction libraries out there for Unit Testing?

  - by Binary Worrier

  To test methods that use the file system we need to basically put System.IO behind a set of interfaces that we can then mock, I do this with a DiskIO class and interface. As my DiskIO code gets larger (and the grumblings from the we're unconvinced about this TDD thing crowd here in work get louder), I went looking for a comprehensive open source library that already does this and found . . . nothing. I may be looking in the wrong place or have approached this problem in completely the wrong way. I can't be the only idiot in this position, do these libraries exist, if so where are they? Any you've used and would recommend? Thanks P.S. I'm happy with my current approach i.e. starting with what we need, and adding only when the need arises. Unfortunately the we're unconvinced about this TDD thing crowd remain unconvinced, and think that I can't be right.

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• Is application-specific data required for good unit testing?

  - by stinkycheeseman

  I am writing unit tests for a fairly simple function that depends on a fairly complicated set of data. Essentially, the object I am manipulating represents a graph and this function determines whether to chart a line, bar, or pie chart based on the data that came back from the server. This is a simplified version, using jQuery: setDefaultChartType: function (graphObject) { var prop1 = graphObject.properties.key; var numCols = 0; $.each(graphObject.columns, function (colIndex, column) { numCols++; }); if ( numCols > 6 || ( prop1 > 1 && graphObject.data.length == 1) ) { graphObject.setChartType("line"); } else if ( numCols <=6 && prop1 == 1 ) { graphObject.setChartType("bar"); } else if ( numCols <=6 && prop1 > 1 ) { graphObject.setChartType("pie"); } } My question is, should I use mock data that is procured from the actual database? Or can I just fabricate data that fits the different cases? I'm afraid that fabricating data will not expose bugs arising from changes in the database, but on the other hand, it would require a lot more effort to keep the test data up-to-date that I'm not sure is necessary.

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• User input and automated input separation

  - by tpaksu

  I have a MySQL database and an automation script which modifies the data inside once a day. And these columns may have changed by an user manually. What is the best approach to make the system only update the automated data, not the manually edited ones? I mean yes, flagging the cell which is manually edited is one way to do it, but I want to know if there's another way to accomplish this? Just curiosity. BTW, the question is about cell values, not rows.

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• why my unit testing taken more than normal time to run in VS 2010 Premium [on hold]

  - by kombo

  I have only 4 proeject in my solutions. Am trying to run a unit test for one of my class in one of the project. I Create the unit test by: Right clicking on the class choose the create unit test option. I followed the wizard to the end.which resulting the test creation. I just pass the values of the parameter and run the test. but my test keep running. Both surprisingly it runs on other developers pc. NB:My class is connecting to the database and my application is asp.net web form. i know this is not recommended but i want to have my test running now. i have tried alot of samples on the internet but still my problem persist. Could any one tell me the cause of the extreme slowness(more than 30 minutes)

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• Facebooker Causing Problems with Rails Integration Testing

  - by Eric Lubow

  I am (finally) attempting to write some integration tests for my application (because every deploy is getting scarier). Since testing is a horribly documented feature of Rails, this was the best I could get going with shoulda. class DeleteBusinessTest < ActionController::IntegrationTest context "log skydiver in and" do setup do @skydiver = Factory( :skydiver ) @skydiver_session = SkydiverSession.create(@skydiver) @biz = Factory( :business, :ownership = Factory(:ownership, :skydiver = @skydiver )) end context "delete business" do setup do @skydiver_session = SkydiverSession.find post '/businesses/destroy', :id = @biz.id end should_redirect_to('businesses_path()'){businesses_path()} end end end In theory, this test seems like it should pass. My factories seem like they are pushing the right data in: Factory.define :skydiver do |s| s.sequence(:login) { |n| "test#{n}" } s.sequence(:email) { |n| "test#{n}@example.com" } s.crypted_password '1805986f044ced38691118acfb26a6d6d49be0d0' s.password 'secret' s.password_confirmation { |u| u.password } s.salt 'aowgeUne1R4-F6FFC1ad' s.firstname 'Test' s.lastname 'Salt' s.nickname 'Mr. Password Testy' s.facebook_user_id '507743444' end The problem I am getting seems to be from Facebooker only seems to happen on login attempts. When the test runs, I am getting the error: The error occurred while evaluating nil.set_facebook_session. I believe that error is to be expected in a certain sense since I am not using Facebook here for this session. Can anyone provide any insight as to how to either get around this or at least help me out with what is going wrong?

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• Create System.Data.Linq.Table in Code for Testing

  - by S. DePouw

  I have an adapter class for Linq-to-Sql: public interface IAdapter : IDisposable { Table<Data.User> Activities { get; } } Data.User is an object defined by Linq-to-Sql pointing to the User table in persistence. The implementation for this is as follows: public class Adapter : IAdapter { private readonly SecretDataContext _context = new SecretDataContext(); public void Dispose() { _context.Dispose(); } public Table<Data.User> Users { get { return _context.Users; } } } This makes mocking the persistence layer easy in unit testing, as I can just return whatever collection of data I want for Users (Rhino.Mocks): Expect.Call(_adapter.Users).Return(users); The problem is that I cannot create the object 'users' since the constructors are not accessible and the class Table is sealed. One option I tried is to just make IAdapter return IEnumerable or IQueryable, but the problem there is that I then do not have access to the methods ITable provides (e.g. InsertOnSubmit()). Is there a way I can create the fake Table in the unit test scenario so that I may be a happy TDD developer?

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• jQuery validator not working in unit testing

  - by Dbugger

  I have this small HTML file: <html> <head></head> <body> <form id='MyForm'> <input type='text' required /> <input type='submit' /> </form> <script src="/js/jquery-1.9.0.js"></script> <script src="/js/jquery.validate.js"></script> <script> var validator = $("#MyForm").validate(); alert(validator.form()); </script> </body> </html> This alerts me with "false", which is the expected behaviour. The problem comes when I go to unit testing, with js-test-driver: TestCase("MyTests", { setUp: function() { this.myform = "<form id='MyForm'><input type='text' required /><input type='submit' /></form>"; this.validator = $(this.myform).validate(); jstestdriver.console.log("Does the form validate? " + this.validator.form()); }, test_empty: function() { }, }); This code returns me the string Does the form validate? true This is a simplified version of my project of course, but the point is that I dont seem to be able to unit test the validation module im developing, since the jQuery validate plugin doesnt seem to work. What am I missing?

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• EJB3Unit testing no-tx-datasource

  - by justastefan

  Hello, I am doing tests on an ejb3-project using ejb3unit http://ejb3unit.sourceforge.net/Session-Bean.html for testing. All my Services long for @PersistenceContext (UnitName=bla). I set up the ejb3unit.properties like this: ejb3unit_jndi.1.isSessionBean=true ejb3unit_jndi.1.jndiName=ejb/MyServiceBean ejb3unit_jndi.1.className=com.company.project.MyServiceBean everything works with the in-memory-database. So now i want additionally test another servicebean with @PersistenceContext (UnitName=noTxDatasource) that goes for a defined in my datasources.xml: <datasources> <local-tx-datasource> ... </local-tx-datasource> <no-tx-datasource> <jndi-name>noTxDatasource</jndi-name> <connection-url>...</connection-url> <driver-class>oracle.jdbc.OracleDriver</driver-class> <user-name>bla</user-name> <password>bla</password> </no-tx-datasource> </datasources> How do I tell ejb3unit to make this work: Object object = InitialContext.doLookup("java:/noTxDatasource"); if (object instanceof DataSource) { return ((DataSource) object).getConnection(); } else { return null; } Currently it fails saying: javax.NamingException: Cannot find the name (noTxDataSource) in the JNDI tree Current bindings: (ejb/MyServiceBean=com.company.project.MyServiceBean) How can I add this no-tx-datasource to the jndi bindings?

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• Visual C++ Testing problem

  - by JamesMCCullum

  Hi there I have installed VisualAssert and cFix. I have been using Visual Studio C++ and programming in CLI/C++. I have a working Chess Game Program that works perfectly by itself.....and I have been studying testing and have many examples(with tutorials) I have found on the net, that compile and run in Visual Studio..... But as soon as I try and implement those tests on my chess game......I get this problem.... This is what its telling me 1>------ Build started: Project: ChessRound1, Configuration: Debug Win32 ------ 1>Compiling... 1>stdafx.cpp 1>C:\Program Files\VisualAssert\include\cfixpe.h(137) : error C3641: 'CfixpCrtInitEmbedding' : invalid calling convention '__cdecl ' for function compiled with /clr:pure or /clr:safe 1>C:\Program Files\VisualAssert\include\cfixpe.h(235) : error C4394: 'CfixpCrtInitEmbeddingRegistration' : per-appdomain symbol should not be marked with __declspec(allocate) 1>C:\Program Files\VisualAssert\include\cfixpe.h(235) : error C2393: 'CfixpCrtInitEmbeddingRegistration' : per-appdomain symbol cannot be allocated in segment '.CRT$XCX' 1>C:\Program Files\VisualAssert\include\cfixpe.h(244) : error C2440: 'initializing' : cannot convert from 'void (__cdecl *)(void)' to 'const CFIX_CRT_INIT_ROUTINE' 1> Address of a function yields __clrcall calling convention in /clr:pure and /clr:safe; consider using __clrcall in target type 1>C:\Program Files\VisualAssert\include\cfixpe.h(137) : error C3641: 'CfixpCrtInitEmbedding' : invalid calling convention '__cdecl ' for function compiled with /clr:pure or /clr:safe 1>Build log was saved at "file://c:\Users\james\Documents\Visual Studio 2008\Projects\ChessRound1\ChessRound1\Debug\BuildLog.htm" 1>ChessRound1 - 4 error(s), 0 warning(s) ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 0 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? Im working with windows forms and have a heap of cpp source files. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

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• Testing a patch to the Rails mysql adapter

  - by Sleepycat

  I wrote a little monkeypatch to the Rails MySQLAdapter and want to package it up to use it in my other projects. I am trying to write some tests for it but I am still new to testing and I am not sure how to test this. Can someone help get me started? Here is the code I want to test: unless RAILS_ENV == 'production' module ActiveRecord module ConnectionAdapters class MysqlAdapter < AbstractAdapter def select_with_explain(sql, name = nil) explanation = execute_with_disable_logging('EXPLAIN ' + sql) e = explanation.all_hashes.first exp = e.collect{|k,v| " | #{k}: #{v} "}.join log(exp, 'Explain') select_without_explain(sql, name) end def execute_with_disable_logging(sql, name = nil) #:nodoc: #Run a query without logging @connection.query(sql) rescue ActiveRecord::StatementInvalid => exception if exception.message.split(":").first =~ /Packets out of order/ raise ActiveRecord::StatementInvalid, "'Packets out of order' error was received from the database. Please update your mysql bindings (gem install mysql) and read http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/password-hashing.html for more information. If you're on Windows, use the Instant Rails installer to get the updated mysql bindings." else raise end end alias_method_chain :select, :explain end end end end Thanks.

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• How to organize integrity tests and code unit tests?

  - by karlthorwald

  I have several files with code testing code (which uses a "unittest" class). Later I found it would be nice to test database integrity also. I put this into a separate directory tree. (Things like the keys have correct format, parent and child nodes are pointing correctly and such.) I use the same unittest class for the integrity tests. Now I wonder if it makes really sense to keep this separate. To test the integrity of data I often duplicate parts of code that I use to test the code that handles the data. But it is not the same. The code tests use test databases (that get deleted after each test) and the integrity tests connect to the live data and analyze it. The integrity tests I want to call from cron and send an alarm if something happens in the live database. How would you handle that? Are there standards for such a setup? What is your experience? My tendency is to put everything in the same file, which would result in the code tests also being executed by the cron on the production environment.

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• How to organize live data integrity tests and code unit tests?

  - by karlthorwald

  I have several files with code testing code (which uses a "unittest" class). Later I found it would be nice to test database integrity also. I put this into a separate directory tree. (Things like the keys have correct format, parent and child nodes are pointing correctly and such.) I use the same unittest class for the integrity tests. Now I wonder if it makes really sense to keep this separate. To test the integrity of data I often duplicate parts of code that I use to test the code that handles the data. But it is not the same. The code tests use test databases (that get deleted after each test) and the integrity tests connect to the live data and analyze it. The integrity tests I want to call from cron and send an alarm if something happens in the live database. How would you handle that? Are there standards for such a setup? What is your experience? My tendency is to put everything in the same file, which would result in the code tests also being executed by the cron on the production environment.

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• Boost Unit testing memory reuse causing tests that should fail to pass

  - by Knyphe

  We have started using the boost unit testing library for a large existing code base, and I have run into some trouble with unit tests incorrectly passing, seemingly due to the reuse of memory on the stack. Here is my situation: BOOST_AUTO_TEST_CASE(test_select_base_instantiation_default) { SelectBase selectBase(); BOOST_CHECK_EQUAL( selectBase.getSelectType(), false); BOOST_CHECK_EQUAL( selectBase.getTypeName(_T("")); BOOST_CHECK_EQUAL( selectBase.getEntityType(), -1); BOOST_CHECK_EQUAL( selectBase.getDataPos(), -1); } BOOST_AUTO_TEST_CASE(test_select_base_instantiation_default) { SelectBase selectBase(true, _T("abc")); BOOST_CHECK_EQUAL( selectBase.getSelectType(), false); BOOST_CHECK_EQUAL( selectBase.getTypeName(_T("abc")); BOOST_CHECK_EQUAL( selectBase.getEntityType(), -1); BOOST_CHECK_EQUAL( selectBase.getDataPos(), -1); } The first test passed correctly, initializing all the variables. The constructor in the second unit test did not correctly set EntityType or DataPosition, but the unit test passed. I was able to get it to fail by placing some variables on the stack in the second test, like so: BOOST_AUTO_TEST_CASE(test_select_base_instantiation_default) { int a, b; SelectBase selectBase(true, _T("abc")); BOOST_CHECK_EQUAL( selectBase.getSelectType(), false); BOOST_CHECK_EQUAL( selectBase.getTypeName(_T("abc")); BOOST_CHECK_EQUAL( selectBase.getEntityType(), -1); BOOST_CHECK_EQUAL( selectBase.getDataPos(), -1); } If there is only one int, only the dataPos CHECK_EQUAL fails, but if there are two, both EntityType and DataPos fail, so it seems pretty clear that this is an issue with the variables being created on the same stack memory or some such. Is there a good way to clear the memory between each unit test, or am I potentially using the library incorrectly or writing bad tests? Any help would be appreciated.

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• Unit testing that an event is raised in C#, using reflection

  - by Thomas

  I want to test that setting a certain property (or more generally, executing some code) raises a certain event on my object. In that respect my problem is similar to http://stackoverflow.com/questions/248989/unit-testing-that-an-event-is-raised-in-c, but I need a lot of these tests and I hate boilerplate. So I'm looking for a more general solution, using reflection. Ideally, I would like to do something like this: [TestMethod] public void TestWidth() { MyClass myObject = new MyClass(); AssertRaisesEvent(() => { myObject.Width = 42; }, myObject, "WidthChanged"); } For the implementation of the AssertRaisesEvent, I've come this far: private void AssertRaisesEvent(Action action, object obj, string eventName) { EventInfo eventInfo = obj.GetType().GetEvent(eventName); int raisedCount = 0; Action incrementer = () => { ++raisedCount; }; Delegate handler = /* what goes here? */; eventInfo.AddEventHandler(obj, handler); action.Invoke(); eventInfo.RemoveEventHandler(obj, handler); Assert.AreEqual(1, raisedCount); } As you can see, my problem lies in creating a Delegate of the appropriate type for this event. The delegate should do nothing except invoke incrementer. Because of all the syntactic syrup in C#, my notion of how delegates and events really work is a bit hazy. How to do this?

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• Testing a Gui-heavy WPF application.

  - by Hamish Grubijan

  We (my colleagues) have a messy 12 y.o. mature app that is GUI-based, and the current plan is to add new dialogs & other GUI in WPF, as well as replace some of the older dialogs in WPF as well. At the same time we wish to be able to test that Monster - GUI automation in a maintainable way. Some challenges: The application is massive. It constantly gains new features. It is being changed around (bug fixes, patches). It has a back end, and a layer in-between. The state of it can get out of whack if you beat it to death. What we want is: Some tool that can automate testing of WPF. auto-discovery of what the inputs and the outputs of the dialog are. An old test should still work if you add a label that does nothing. It should fail, however, if you remove a necessary text field. It would be very nice if the test suite was easy to maintain, if it ran and did not break most of the time. Every new dialog should be created with testability in mind. At this point I do not know exactly what I want, so I am marking this as a community wiki. If having to test a huge GUI-based app rings the bell (even if not in WPF), then please share your good, bad and ugly experiences here.

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• Visual C++ overrides/mock objects for unit testing?

  - by Mark

  When I'm running unit tests, I want to be able to "stub out" or create a mock object, but I'm running into DLL Hell. For example: There are two DLL libraries built: A.dll and B.dll -- Classes in A.dll have calls to classes in B.dll so when A.dll was built, the link line was using B.lib for the defintions. My test driver (Foo.exe) is testing classes in A.dll, so it links against A.lib. However, I want to "stub out" some of the calls A.dll makes to B.dll with simple versions (return basic value, no DB look up, etc). I can't build an Override.dll that just overrides the needed methods (not entire classes) and replace B.dll because Foo.exe will A) complain that B.dll is missing if I just remove it and put Override.dll in it's place or B) if I rename Override.dll to B.dll, Foo.exe complains that there are unresolved symbols because Override.dll is not a complete implementation of B.dll. Is there a way to do this? Is there a way to statically link Foo.exe with A.lib, B.lib and Override.lib such that it will work without having to completely rebuild A.lib and B.lib to remove the __delcspec(dllexport)? Is there another option?

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• maven and unit testing - combining maven surefire plugin AND testNG eclipse plugin

  - by lisak

  Hey, could you please share your way of unit testing in eclipse ? Are you using surefire plugin, m2eclipse & maven, or only testNG eclipse plugin ? Do you combine these alternatives ? I'm using testNG + maven surefire-plugin and I had been using the testNG eclipse plugin a year ago so that I could see the results in testNG view. Then I started using Maven, but when I do "maven test phase" using m2eclipse, there is only console output and surefire reports that I can check in browser and to choose what test suite, test, or test method can be set up only via testng.xml. On the other hand, if you use only surefire plugin and you have some specific settings regarding classpath etc., that you rely on, then running tests via testNG eclipse plugin doesn't have to be compatible with your code. Using surefire plugin, the classpath is different - target/test-classes and target/classes - than using testNG plugin, that is using the project classpath. How do you go about what I was just talking about? Is it possible to synchronize "maven test" using m2eclipse and surefire plugin WITH testNG eclipse plugin and view ? EDITED: I'm also wondering, why the Maven project ("Java build path") output folder is target/classes for src/main and src/test whereas surefire plugin makes two locations target/test-classes and target/classes Thank you very much for your your opinions.

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• Unit Testing the Use of TransactionScope

  - by Randolpho

  The preamble: I have designed a strongly interfaced and fully mockable data layer class that expects the business layer to create a TransactionScope when multiple calls should be included in a single transaction. The problem: I would like to unit test that my business layer makes use of a TransactionScope object when I expect it to. Unfortunately, the standard pattern for using TransactionScope is a follows: using(var scope = new TransactionScope()) { // transactional methods datalayer.InsertFoo(); datalayer.InsertBar(); scope.Complete(); } While this is a really great pattern in terms of usability for the programmer, testing that it's done seems... unpossible to me. I cannot detect that a transient object has been instantiated, let alone mock it to determine that a method was called on it. Yet my goal for coverage implies that I must. The Question: How can I go about building unit tests that ensure TransactionScope is used appropriately according to the standard pattern? Final Thoughts: I've considered a solution that would certainly provide the coverage I need, but have rejected it as overly complex and not conforming to the standard TransactionScope pattern. It involves adding a CreateTransactionScope method on my data layer object that returns an instance of TransactionScope. But because TransactionScope contains constructor logic and non-virtual methods and is therefore difficult if not impossible to mock, CreateTransactionScope would return an instance of DataLayerTransactionScope which would be a mockable facade into TransactionScope. While this might do the job it's complex and I would prefer to use the standard pattern. Is there a better way?

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