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• List of Lua derived VMs and Languages

  - by Shane Holloway

  Is there a compendium of virtual machines and languages derived or inspired by Lua? By derived, I mean usage beyond embedding and extending with modules. I'm wanting to research the Lua technology tree, and am looking for our combined knowledge of what already exists. Current List: Bright - A C-like Lua Derivative http://bluedino.net/luapix/Bright.pdf Agena - An Algol68/SQL like Lua Derivative http://agena.sourceforge.net/ LuaJIT - A (very impressive) JIT for Lua http://luajit.org MetaLua - An ML-style language extension http://metalua.luaforge.net/

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• Historical / auditable database

  - by Mark

  Hi all, This question is related to the schema that can be found in one of my other questions here. Basically in my database I store users, locations, sensors amongst other things. All of these things are editable in the system by users, and deletable. However - when an item is edited or deleted I need to store the old data; I need to be able to see what the data was before the change. There are also non-editable items in the database, such as "readings". They are more of a log really. Readings are logged against sensors, because its the reading for a particular sensor. If I generate a report of readings, I need to be able to see what the attributes for a location or sensor was at the time of the reading. Basically I should be able to reconstruct the data for any point in time. Now, I've done this before and got it working well by adding the following columns to each editable table: valid_from valid_to edited_by If valid_to = 9999-12-31 23:59:59 then that's the current record. If valid_to equals valid_from, then the record is deleted. However, I was never happy with the triggers I needed to use to enforce foreign key consistency. I can possibly avoid triggers by using the extension to the "PostgreSQL" database. This provides a column type called "period" which allows you to store a period of time between two dates, and then allows you to do CHECK constraints to prevent overlapping periods. That might be an answer. I am wondering though if there is another way. I've seen people mention using special historical tables, but I don't really like the thought of maintainling 2 tables for almost every 1 table (though it still might be a possibility). Maybe I could cut down my initial implementation to not bother checking the consistency of records that aren't "current" - i.e. only bother to check constraints on records where the valid_to is 9999-12-31 23:59:59. Afterall, the people who use historical tables do not seem to have constraint checks on those tables (for the same reason, you'd need triggers). Does anyone have any thoughts about this? PS - the title also mentions auditable database. In the previous system I mentioned, there is always the edited_by field. This allowed all changes to be tracked so we could always see who changed a record. Not sure how much difference that might make. Thanks.

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• Factory Method Pattern using Generics-C#

  - by nanda

  Just I am learning Generics.When i have an Abstract Method pattern like : //Abstract Product interface IPage { string pageType(); } //Concerete Product 1 class ResumePage : IPage { public string pageType() { return "Resume Page"; } } //Concrete Product 2 class SummaryPage : IPage { public string pageType() { return "SummaryPage"; } } //Fcatory Creator class FactoryCreator { public IPage CreateOnRequirement(int i) { if (i == 1) return new ResumePage(); else { return new SummaryPage(); } } } //Client/Consumer void Main() { FactoryCreator c = new FactoryCreator(); IPage p; p = c.CreateOnRequirement(1); Console.WriteLine("Page Type is {0}", p.pageType()); p = c.CreateOnRequirement(2); Console.WriteLine("Page Type is {0}", p.pageType()); Console.ReadLine(); } how to convert the code using generics?

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• What's the best practice way to convert enum to string?

  - by dario

  Hi. I have enum like this: public enum ObectTypes { TypeOne, TypeTwo, TypeThree, ... TypeTwenty } then I need to convert this enum to string. Now Im doing this that way: public string ConvertToCustomTypeName(ObjectTypes typeObj) { string result = string.Empty; switch (typeObj) { case ObjectTypes.TypeOne: result = "This is type T123"; break; case ObjectTypes.TypeTwo: result = "This is type T234"; break; ... case ObjectTypes.TypeTwenty: result = "This is type last"; break; } return result; } Im quite sure that there is better way do do this, Im looking for some good practice solution. Thanks in advance.

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• Why optional parameters must appear at the end of the declaration

  - by Incognito

  In all programming languages supporting optional parameters that I have seen there is a imitation that the optional parameters must appear at the end of the declaration. No required parameters may be included after an optional item. What is the reason for that ? I guess it can be compiler/interpreter requirement.

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• Fatal error: Uncaught exception 'Zend_Gdata_App_HttpException' with message 'Expected response code 200, got 401'

  - by Peak Reconstruction Wavelength

  I am using a php-script that has been working for years, but suddenly it aborts with Fatal error: Uncaught exception 'Zend_Gdata_App_HttpException' with message 'Expected response code 200, got 401' NoLinkedYouTubeAccount Error 401 It starts like this <?php function anmelden_yt($name,$passwort) { $yt_source = 'known'; $yt_api_key = 'key'; $yt = null; $authenticationURL= 'https://www.google.com/accounts/ClientLogin'; $httpClient = Zend_Gdata_ClientLogin::getHttpClient( $username = $name, $password = $passwort, $service = 'youtube', $client = null, $source = $yt_source, // a short string identifying your application $loginToken = null, $loginCaptcha = null, $authenticationURL); abschnitt("Login"); return new Zend_Gdata_YouTube($httpClient, $yt_source, NULL, $yt_api_key); } require_once("Zend/Gdata/ClientLogin.php"); require_once("Zend/Gdata/HttpClient.php"); require_once("Zend/Gdata/YouTube.php"); require_once("Zend/Gdata/App/MediaFileSource.php"); require_once("Zend/Gdata/App/HttpException.php"); require_once('Zend/Uri/Http.php'); require_once 'Zend/Loader.php'; Zend_Loader::loadClass('Zend_Gdata_YouTube'); Zend_Loader::loadClass('Zend_Gdata_AuthSub'); Zend_Loader::loadClass('Zend_Gdata_ClientLogin'); $yt = anmelden_yt($name,$pass); $videoFeed = $yt->getUserUploads('Google'); sleep(0.5); @ob_flush(); @flush(); ?> What could be the reason for this? ..................................................................................................

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• CSS for top right corner of the page

  - by user102533

  How would I have a top right corner div as shown in the image. I want to do something similar though not exactly the same. I think the text is not an image. Also, I have seen some websites that has a page hover effect when a mouse is over the top right section. Any idea how to do that?

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• Broken images and security warnings in Facebook Connect

  - by Adam

  I'm hoping this is just a bug on Facebook's end that will be fixed soon, but in my Facebook Connect app I'm launching the dialogue FB provides to make a post. This dialogue is launched on a page with an SSL connection. In this dialogue the profile pic for some users comes up with a security warning while others display correctly. I'm already setup to use Facebook's SSL javascript file instead of the HTTP file.

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• Is it immoral to write crappy code even if readability and correctness is not a requirement?

  - by mafutrct

  There are cases when crappy (i.e. unreadable and buggy) code is not much of a problem. For instance, imagine you need to generate a big text file that mostly follows a simple pattern with a few very complex exceptions. What do you do? You quickly write a simple algorithm and insert the exceptional bits in the output manually to save 4 hours. The code is unreadable, and the output is flawed, but it's still the correct way since it is way faster. But let's get this straight: I hate bad code. I've had to read and work with code that caused my stomach to hurt. I care a lot about good code. And actually, I caught myself thinking that it is immoral to write bad code even though the dirty approach is sometimes superior. I was surprised by myself and found my idea to be very irrational. Did you ever experience this? Should I just get rid of this stupid idea and use the most efficient approach to coding?

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• git pull crashes after other member push something

  - by naiad

  Here it's the story... we have a Github account. I clone the repository ... then I can work with it, commit things, push things, etc ... I use Linux with command line and git version 1.7.7.3 Then other user, using Eclipse and git plugin for eclipse eGit 1.1.0 pushes something, and it appears in the github web pages as the last commit, but when I try to pull: $ git pull remote: Counting objects: 13, done. remote: Compressing objects: 100% (6/6), done. remote: Total 9 (delta 2), reused 7 (delta 0) Unpacking objects: 100% (9/9), done. error: unable to find 3e6c5386cab0c605877f296642d5183f582964b6 fatal: object 3e6c5386cab0c605877f296642d5183f582964b6 not found "3e6c5386cab0c605877f296642d5183f582964b6" is the commit hash of the last commit, done by the other user ... there's no problem at all to browse it through web page ... but for me it's impossible to pull it. It's strange, because my command line output tells about that commit hash, so it knows that one is the last one commit in the github system, but my git can not pull it ! Maybe the git protocol used in eGit is incompatible with the console git 1.7.7.3...

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• Struggling with a data modeling problem

  - by rpat

  I am struggling with a data model (I use MySQL for the database). I am uneasy about what I have come up with. If someone could suggest a better approach, or point me to some reference matter I would appreciate it. The data would have organizations of many types. I am trying to do a 3 level classification (Class, Category, Type). Say if I have 'Italian Restaurant', it will have the following classification Food Services Restaurants Italian However, an organization may belong to multiple groups. A restaurant may also serve Chinese and Italian. So it will fit into 2 classifications Food Services Restaurants Italian Food Services Restaurants Chinese The classification reference tables would be like the following: ORG_CLASS (RowId, ClassCode, ClassName) 1, FOOD, Food Services ORG_CATEGORY(RowId, ClassCode, CategoryCode, CategoryName) 1, FOOD, REST, Restaurants ORG_TYPE (RowId, ClassCode, CategoryCode, TypeCode, TypeName) 100, FOOD, REST, ITAL, Italian 101, FOOD, REST, CHIN, Chinese 102, FOOD, REST, SPAN, Spanish 103, FOOD, REST, MEXI, Mexican 104, FOOD, REST, FREN, French 105, FOOD, REST, MIDL, Middle Eastern The actual data tables would be like the following: I will allow an organization a max of 3 classifications. I will have 3 GroupIds each pointing to a row in ORG_TYPE. So I have my ORGANIZATION_TABLE ORGANIZATION_TABLE (OrgGroupId1, OrgGroupId2, OrgGroupId3, OrgName, OrgAddres) 100,103,NULL,MyRestaurant1, MyAddr1 100,102,NULL,MyRestaurant2, MyAddr2 100,104,105, MyRestaurant3, MyAddr3 During data add, a dialog could let the user choose the clssa, category, type and the corresponding GroupId could be populated with the rowid from the ORG_TYPE table. During Search, If all three classification are chosen, It will be more specific. For example, if Food Services Restaurants Italian is the criteria, the where clause would be 'where OrgGroupId1 = 100' If only 2 levels are chosen Food Services Restaurants I have to do 'where OrgGroupId1 in (100,101,102,103,104,105, .....)' - There could be a hundred in that list I will disallow class level search. That is I will force selection of a class and category The Ids would be integers. I am trying to see performance issues and other issues. Overall, would this work? or I need to throw this out and start from scratch.

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• How do I indicate success and failure with colour?

  - by Steve McLeod

  I need to make a Java component that turns the background a certain colour when a process passed, and another colour when the process failed. My first thought was: green for success, red for failure. But then I read that 10% of males can't differentiate between these two colours. What would be a better combination of colours? (For the nitpickers: yes, I know that colour alone doesn't suffice, that text, shape, and noise can also be used. Nevertheless I am asking about the appropriate use of colour.)

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• fb:request-form in iframe redirects away from facebook

  - by IkimashoZ

  I have an <fb:requestform> in an iFrame Facebook app. I have set target="_parent", so that the callback will target the parent iFrame and not itself, which seems to work as expected. But, instead of my desired file loading, I get redirected to my server. Checking the response of the requestform's POST in Firebug revealed this: <script type="text/javascript"> top.location.href = "http://www.facebook.com/login.php?api_key=***&v=1.0&req_perms=&next=http%3A%2F%2F***"; </script> I have already had this same problem when sending jQuery AJAX requests to update various elements in an iFrame. I solved the problem by making sure my headers contain P3P: CP="CAO PSA OUR". That is indeed set for this call as well (can be seen clearly in Firebug), but I still get redirected to facebook.com/login.php.

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• What is the best testing pattern for checking that parameters are being used properly?

  - by Joseph

  I'm using Rhino Mocks to try to verify that when I call a certain method, that the method in turn will properly group items and then call another method. Something like this: //Arrange var bucketsOfFun = new BucketGame(); var balls = new List<IBall> { new Ball { Color = Color.Red }, new Ball { Color = Color.Blue }, new Ball { Color = Color.Yellow }, new Ball { Color = Color.Orange }, new Ball { Color = Color.Orange } }; //Act bucketsOfFun.HaveFunWithBucketsAndBalls(balls); //Assert ??? Here is where the trouble begins for me. My method is doing something like this: public void HaveFunWithBucketsAndBalls(IList<IBall> balls) { //group all the balls together according to color var blueBalls = GetBlueBalls(balls); var redBalls = GetRedBalls(balls); // you get the idea HaveFunWithABucketOfBalls(blueBalls); HaveFunWithABucketOfBalls(redBalls); // etc etc with all the different colors } public void HaveFunWithABucketOfBalls(IList<IBall> colorSpecificBalls) { //doing some stuff here that i don't care about //for the test i'm writing right now } What I want to assert is that each time I call HaveFunWithABucketOfBalls that I'm calling it with a group of 1 red ball, then 1 blue ball, then 1 yellow ball, then 2 orange balls. If I can assert that behavior then I can verify that the method is doing what I want it to do, which is grouping the balls properly. Any ideas of what the best testing pattern for this would be?

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• Is ASP.NET MVC is really MVC? Or how to separate model from controller?

  - by Andrey

  Hi all, This question is a bit rhetorical. At some point i got a feeling that ASP.NET MVC is not that authentic implementation of MVC pattern. Or i didn't understood it. Consider following domain: electric bulb, switch and motion detector. They are connected together and when you enter the room motion detector switches on the bulb. If i want to represent them as MVC: switch is model, because it holds the state and contains logic bulb is view, because it presents the state of model to human motion detector is controller, because it converts user actions to generic model commands Switch has one private field (On/Off) as a State and two methods (PressOn, PressOff). If you call PressOn when it is Off it goes to On, if you call it again state doesn't change. Bulb can be replaced with buzzer, motion detector with timer or button, but the model still represent the same logic. Eventually system will have same behavior. This is how i understand classical MVC decomposition, please correct me if i am wrong. Now let's decompose it in ASP.Net MVC way. Bulb is still a view Controller will be switch + motion detector Model is some object that will just pass state to bulb. So the logic that defines behavior moves to controller. Question 1: Is my understanding of MVC and ASP.NET MVC correct? Question 2: If yes, do you agree that ASP.NET MVC is not 100% accurate implementation? And back to life. The final question is how to separate model from controller in case of ASP.NET MVC. There can be two extremes. Controller does basic stuff and call model to do all the logic. Another is controller does all the logic and model is just something like class with properties that is mapped to DB. Question 3: Where should i draw the line between this extremes? How to balance? Thanks, Andrey

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• Performance Tricks for C# Logging

  - by Charles

  I am looking into C# logging and I do not want my log messages to spend any time processing if the message is below the logging threshold. The best I can see log4net does is a threshold check AFTER evaluating the log parameters. Example: _logger.Debug( "My complicated log message " + thisFunctionTakesALongTime() + " will take a long time" ) Even if the threshold is above Debug, thisFunctionTakesALongTime will still be evaluated. In log4net you are supposed to use _logger.isDebugEnabled so you end up with if( _logger.isDebugEnabled ) _logger.Debug( "Much faster" ) I want to know if there is a better solution for .net logging that does not involve a check each time I want to log. In C++ I am allowed to do LOG_DEBUG( "My complicated log message " + thisFunctionTakesALongTime() + " will take no time" ) since my LOG_DEBUG macro does the log level check itself. This frees me to have a 1 line log message throughout my app which I greatly prefer. Anyone know of a way to replicate this behavior in C#?

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• Why does the OAuth Unauthorized Error (401) happen?

  - by ming yeow

  Sometimes an Twitter OAuth is successfully executed, but an unauthorized error is thrown. I get about 50 of these on a daily basis. It is worrying, because I have no idea how that might be reproduced. What are the different cases where this error happens, and how can this be fixed or prevented?

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• Google Analytics V2 SDK for Android EasyTracker giving errors

  - by Prince

  I have followed the tutorial for the new Google Analytics V2 SDK for Android located here: https://developers.google.com/analytics/devguides/collection/android/v2/ Unfortunately whenever I go to run the application the reporting is not working and this is the messages that logcat gives me: 07-09 09:13:16.978: W/Ads(13933): No Google Analytics: Library Incompatible. 07-09 09:13:16.994: I/Ads(13933): To get test ads on this device, call adRequest.addTestDevice("2BB916E1BD6BE6407582A429D763EC71"); 07-09 09:13:17.018: I/Ads(13933): adRequestUrlHtml: <html><head><script src="http://media.admob.com/sdk-core-v40.js"></script><script>AFMA_getSdkConstants();AFMA_buildAdURL({"kw":[],"preqs":0,"session_id":"7925570029955749351","u_sd":2,"seq_num":"1","slotname":"a14fd91432961bd","u_w":360,"msid":"com.mysampleapp.sampleapp","js":"afma-sdk-a-v6.0.1","mv":"8013013.com.android.vending","isu":"2BB916E1BD6BE6407582A429D763EC71","cipa":1,"format":"320x50_mb","net":"wi","app_name":"1.android.com.mysampleapp.sampleapp","hl":"en","u_h":592,"carrier":"311480","ptime":0,"u_audio":3});</script></head><body></body></html> 07-09 09:13:17.041: W/ActivityManager(220): Unable to start service Intent { act=com.google.android.gms.analytics.service.START (has extras) }: not found 07-09 09:13:17.049: W/GAV2(13933): Thread[main,5,main]: Connection to service failed 1 07-09 09:13:17.057: W/GAV2(13933): Thread[main,5,main]: Need to call initializea() and be in fallback mode to start dispatch. 07-09 09:13:17.088: D/libEGL(13933): loaded /system/lib/egl/libGLES_android.so 07-09 09:13:17.096: D/libEGL(13933): loaded /vendor/lib/egl/libEGL_POWERVR_SGX540_120.so 07-09 09:13:17.096: D/libEGL(13933): loaded /vendor/lib/egl/libGLESv1_CM_POWERVR_SGX540_120.so 07-09 09:13:17.096: D/libEGL(13933): loaded /vendor/lib/egl/libGLESv2_POWERVR_SGX540_120.so Here is my code (I have redacted some of the code that had to do with httppost, etc.): package com.mysampleapp.sampleapp; import java.io.BufferedReader; import java.io.InputStream; import java.io.InputStreamReader; import java.util.ArrayList; import java.util.List; import org.apache.http.HttpEntity; import org.apache.http.HttpResponse; import org.apache.http.NameValuePair; import org.apache.http.client.HttpClient; import org.apache.http.client.entity.UrlEncodedFormEntity; import org.apache.http.client.methods.HttpPost; import org.apache.http.impl.client.DefaultHttpClient; import org.apache.http.message.BasicNameValuePair; import org.json.JSONArray; import org.json.JSONObject; import com.google.analytics.tracking.android.EasyTracker; import android.app.Activity; import android.app.ProgressDialog; import android.content.DialogInterface; import android.content.DialogInterface.OnCancelListener; import android.content.Intent; import android.content.SharedPreferences; import android.os.AsyncTask; import android.os.Bundle; import android.preference.PreferenceManager; import android.util.Log; import android.view.View; import android.view.View.OnClickListener; import android.widget.ImageView; import android.widget.TextView; public class viewRandom extends Activity { @Override public void onCreate(Bundle savedInstanceState) { super.onCreate(savedInstanceState); setContentView(R.layout.viewrandom); uservote.setVisibility(View.GONE); new randomViewClass().execute(); } public void onStart() { super.onStart(); EasyTracker.getInstance().activityStart(this); } public void onStop() { super.onStop(); EasyTracker.getInstance().activityStop(this); } }

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• How to avoid using this in a constructor

  - by Paralife

  I have this situation: interface MessageListener { void onMessageReceipt(Message message); } class MessageReceiver { MessageListener listener; public MessageReceiver(MessageListener listener, other arguments...) { this.listener = listener; } loop() { Message message = nextMessage(); listener.onMessageReceipt(message); } } and I want to avoid the following pattern: (Using the this in the Client constructor) class Client implements MessageListener { MessageReceiver receiver; MessageSender sender; public Client(...) { receiver = new MessageReceiver(this, other arguments...); sender = new Sender(...); } . . . @Override public void onMessageReceipt(Message message) { if(Message.isGood()) sender.send("Congrtulations"); else sender.send("Boooooooo"); } } The reason why i need the above functionality is because i want to call the sender inside the onMessageReceipt() function, for example to send a reply. But I dont want to pass the sender into a listener, so the only way I can think of is containing the sender in a class that implements the listener, hence the above resulting Client implementation. Is there a way to achive this without the use of 'this' in the constructor? It feels bizare and i dont like it, since i am passing myself to an object(MessageReceiver) before I am fully constructed. On the other hand, the MessageReceiver is not passed from outside, it is constructed inside, but does this 'purifies' the bizarre pattern? I am seeking for an alternative or an assurance of some kind that this is safe, or situations on which it might backfire on me.

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• Which Code Should Go Where in MVC Structure

  - by Oguz

  My problem is in somewhere between model and controller.Everything works perfect for me when I use MVC just for crud (create, read, update, delete).I have separate models for each database table .I access these models from controller , to crud them . For example , in contacts application,I have actions (create, read, update, delete) in controller(contact) to use model's (contact) methods (create, read, update, delete). The problem starts when I try to do something more complicated. There are some complex processes which I do not know where should I put them. For example , in registering user process. I can not just finish this process in user model because , I have to use other models too (sending mails , creating other records for user via other models) and do lots of complex validations via other models. For example , in some complex searching processes , I have to access lots of models (articles, videos, images etc.) Or, sometimes , I have to use apis to decide what I will do next or which database model I will use to record data So where is the place to do this complicated processes. I do not want to do them in controllers , Because sometimes I should use these processes in other controllers too. And I do not want to put these process in models because , I use models as database access layers .May be I am wrong,I want to know . Thank you for your answer .

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• Are there old versions of Windows UX guidelines somewhere?

  - by Camilo Martin

  Since I've read Windows User Experience Interaction Guidelines (there's a PDF download avaliable) I've found it to be admirably self-deprecating, humbly pointing out their own horrible UI practices long scolded by Joel Spolsky. I'd like to know, however, what they had in mind while they made those mistakes. Is this (terrific) UX Guidelines document something new, or were there previous issues of such? If so, where can I find them? My prayers to Google yielded no leniency.

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• Printing ERD from SchemaSpy output

  - by Burt

  We have quite a large database schema and our business analysts would print it and take it to meetings. Is there any way to get schema spy to print an ERD to 1 A3 page?

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• Graph-structured databases and Php

  - by stagas

  I want to use a graph database using php. Can you point out some resources on where to get started? Is there any example code / tutorial out there? Or are there any other methods of storing data that relate to each other in totally random/abstract situations? - Very abstract example of the relations needed: John relates to Mary, both relate to School, John is Tall, Mary is Short, John has Blue Eyes, Mary has Green Eyes, query I want is which people are related to 'Short people that have Green Eyes and go to School' - answer John - Another example: TrackA -> ArtistA -> ArtistB -> AlbumA -----> [ label ] -> AlbumB -----> [ A ] -> TrackA:Remix -> Genre:House -> [ Album ] -----> [ label ] TrackB -> [ C ] [ B ] Example queries: Which Genre is TrackB closer to? answer: House - because it's related to Album C, which is related to TrackA and is related to Genre:House Get all Genre:House related albums of Label A : result: AlbumA, AlbumB - because they both have TrackA which is related to Genre:House - It is possible in MySQL but it would require a fixed set of attributes/columns for each item and a complex non-flexible query, instead I need every attribute to be an item by itself and instead of 'belonging' to something, to be 'related' to something.

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• ActiveMerchant - Optimal method of sending money to user? PayPal account or Credit

  - by Kevin

  I have a website that will take payments from user A, hold them in our escrow account, then transfer the money minus a fee to user B. I have the first part figured out, in terms of taking credit card payments from user A, but I'm trying to figure out the optimal method of taking that money and sending it to user B. I'm not storing credit card info due to privacy and I don't mind requiring user B to sign up for a PayPal account if they're going to use the system but I don't know how to directly send payments to a PayPal account. I'm using ActiveMerchant and the PayPal gateway on Rails 2.3.5. I'm also open to any suggestions as to what the optimal method is to take money from user A, hold it for 1-60 days, then transfer it to user B while incurring minimal fees and something I can implement in Rails hopefully that won't cause me to have an aneurysm.

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• What are appropriate ways to represent relationships between people in a database table?

  - by Emilio

  I've got a table of people - an ID primary key and a name. In my application, people can have 0 or more real-world relationships with other people, so Jack might "work for" Jane and Tom might "replace" Tony and Bob might "be an employee of" Rob and Bob might also "be married to" Mary. What's the best way to represent this in the database? A many to many intersect table? A series of self joins? A relationship table with one row per relationship pair and type, where I insert records for the relationship in both directions?

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