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• ASP.NET MVC User authentication - why it should be so sophisticated?

  - by Serge

  Hello guys, I'm trying to use ASP.NET MVC to my new project and have been expected that the user authentication should be rather simple there. My goal is to have a separate user database table in my main database. I thought that the SqlTableProfileProvider should be the solution. So I added the corresponding table into my database and changed the web.config file. But it seems no matter what I change there, my web application still using the default authentication (via ASPNETDB.mdf file). What could be the problem? (my web.config file beginning is:)

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• Why is F# member not found when used in subclass

  - by James Black

  I have a base type that I want to inherit from, for all my DAO objects, but this member gets the error further down about not being defined: type BaseDAO() = member v.ExecNonQuery2(conn)(sqlStr) = let comm = new MySqlCommand(sqlStr, conn, CommandTimeout = 10) comm.ExecuteNonQuery |> ignore comm.Dispose |> ignore I inherit in this type: type CreateDatabase() = inherit BaseDAO() member private self.createDatabase(conn) = self.ExecNonQuery2 conn "DROP DATABASE IF EXISTS restaurant" This is what I see when my script runs in the interactive shell: --> Referenced 'C:\Program Files\MySQL\MySQL Connector Net 6.2.3\Assemblies\MySql.Data.dll' [Loading C:\Users\jblack\Documents\Visual Studio 2010\Projects\RestaurantService\RestaurantDAO\BaseDAO.fs] namespace FSI_0106.RestaurantServiceDAO type BaseDAO = class new : unit -> BaseDAO member ExecNonQuery2 : conn:MySql.Data.MySqlClient.MySqlConnection -> sqlStr:string -> unit member execNonQuery : sqlStr:string -> unit member execQuery : sqlStr:string * selectFunc:(MySql.Data.MySqlClient.MySqlDataReader -> 'a list) -> 'a list member f : x:obj -> string member Conn : MySql.Data.MySqlClient.MySqlConnection end [Loading C:\Users\jblack\Documents\Visual Studio 2010\Projects\RestaurantService\RestaurantDAO\CreateDatabase.fs] C:\Users\jblack\Documents\Visual Studio 2010\Projects\RestaurantService\RestaurantDAO\CreateDatabase.fs(56,14): error FS0039: The field, constructor or member 'ExecNonQuery2' is not defined I am curious what I am doing wrong. I have tried not inheriting, and just instantiating the BaseDAO type in the function, but I get the same error. I started on this path because I had a property that had the same error, so it seems there may be a problem with how I am defining my BaseDAO type, but it compiles with no error, which further confuses me about this problem.

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• ApplicationPoolIdentity permissions on Temporary Asp.Net files

  - by Anton

  Hi all, at work I am struggling a bit with the following situation: We have a web application that runs on a WIndows Server 2008 64 bits machine. The app's ApplicationPool is running under the ApplicationPoolIdentity and configured for .net 2 and Classic pipeline mode. This works fine up to the moment that XmlSerialization requires creation of Serializer assemblies where MEF is being used to create a collection of knowntypes. To remedy this I was hoping that granting the ApplicationPoolIdentity rights to the ASP.Net Temporary Files directory would be enough, but alas... What I did was the run the following command from a cmd prompt: icacls "c:\windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727\Temporary ASP.NET Files" /grant "IIS AppPool\MyAppPool":(M) Obviously this did not work, otherwise you would not be reading this :) Strange thing is that whenever I grant the Users or even more specific, the Authenticated Users Group those permissions, it works. What's weird as well (in my eyes) is that before I started granting access the ApplicationPoolIdentity was already a member of IIS_IUSRS which does have Modify rights for the temporary asp files directory. And now I'm left wondering why this situation requires Modify rights for the Authenticated Users group. I thought it could be because the apppool account was missing additional rights (googling for this returned some results, so I tried those), but granting the ApplicationPoolIdentity modification rights to the Windows\Temp directory and/or the application directory itself did not fix it. For now we have a workaround, but I hate that I don't know what is exactly going on here, so I was hoping any of you guys could shed some light on this. Thanx in advance!

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• How to connect to Oracle 10g server from client machines

  - by Tareq

  I have installed Oracle 10g in one of my office's computer. I want to keep this as database server. I am developing a .net project which will communicate with the database server from client machine and from the server machine. I success to communicate with oracle from server machine but not from client machine using the .net project. The connection code is as follows: Public OraConn As ADODB.Connection OraConn = New ADODB.Connection OraConn.Provider = "OraOLEDB.Oracle" OraConn.ConnectionString = "Data Source=<my_database_name>;User ID=<my_user>;Password=<my_pass>;" OraConn.Open() Please tell me step by step procedures how can I connect to my server database from my .net client program resides on client machine ? Thanks in Advance.

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• ASP.NET 4.0 webforms routing

  - by Ethan

  I have an existing site that I'd like to convert to use routing, and after reading Scott Guthrie's post here, I built a working sample that works for most circumstances. However, since not all of the pages on the existing site match a particular pattern, I'll need to check against a database to determine which route (destination .aspx page) to use. For example, most pages are like this: http://www.mysite.com/people/person.html This is fine - I can easily route these to the view_person.aspx page because of the 'people' directory. But some pages are like this: http://www.mysite.com/category_page.html http://www.mysite.com/product_page.html This necessitates checking the database to see whether to route to the view_category.aspx page or the view_product.aspx page. And this is where I'm stuck. Do I create an IRouteHandler that checks the database and returns the route? Or is there a better way? The only code I've found that kind of fits is the answer to this question. Thanks in advance.

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• Oracle sysman password reset and enterprise manager

  - by Aboxy

  We are running oracle 10g.yesterday we had to reset sysman(and all other sys acounts)user with alter user command. Password change command worked by oracle enterprise manager does not see the database running. As per oracle docs,we did change the password(and encryption setting) and restarted the dbconsole service. Password does get encrypted after restarted but em still does not see the database online. Are we missing any other important step? Thanks Aboxy

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• Excel File opened under Ubuntu, read by R, OpenOffice

  - by Vishal Belsare

  I have a bunch of Excel files which are updated on a daily basis on a Windows machine. I transfer them to a Ubuntu machine and want to open them there. Specifically, I want to read the files as a database under R. A couple years ago, I used ODBC under a Windows machine to open Excel files through R. Is there any way, I can do this with R under Ubuntu? I could make a database .ODB file for the corresponding XLS files using OpenOffice, but I don't know of a way to connect to a .ODB database. OpenOffice seems to have ways to connect TO databases, but no way to connect to ODB. Thanks for any potential solutions.

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• Need to map classes to different databases at runtime in Hibernate

  - by serg555

  I have MainDB database and unknown number (at compile time) of UserDB_1, ..., UserDB_N databases. MainDB contains names of those UserDB databases in some table (new UserDB can be created at runtime). All UserDB have exactly the same table names and fields. How to handle such situation in Hibernate? (database structure cannot be changed). Currently I am planning to create generic User classes not mapped to anything and just use native SQL for all queries: session.createSQLQuery("select * from " + db + ".user where id=1") .setResultTransformer(Transformers.aliasToBean(User.class)); Is there anything better I can do? Ideally I would want to have mappings for UserDB tables and relations and use HQL on required database.

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• New hire expectations... (Am I being unreasonable?)

  - by user295841

  I work for a very small custom software shop. We currently consist me and my boss. My boss is an old FoxPro DOS developer and OOP makes him uncomfortable. He is planning on taking a back seat in the next few years to hopefully enjoy a “partial retirement”. I will be taking over the day to day operations and we are now desperately looking for more help. We tried Monster.com, Dice.com, and others a few years ago when we started our search. We had no success. We have tried outsourcing overseas (total disaster), hiring kids right out of college (mostly a disaster but that’s where I came from), interns (good for them, not so good for us) and hiring laid off “experienced” developers (there was a reason they were laid off). I have heard hiring practices discussed on podcasts, blogs, etc... and have tried a few. The “Fizz Buzz” test was a good one. One kid looked physically ill before he finally gave up. I think my problem is that I have grown so much as a developer since I started here that I now have a high standard. I hear/read very intelligent people podcasts and blogs and I know that there are lots of people out there that can do the job. I don’t want to settle for less than a “good” developer. Perhaps my expectations are unreasonable. I expect any good developer (entry level or experienced) to be billable (at least paying their own wage) in under one month. I expect any good developer to be able to be productive (at least dangerous) in any language or technology with only a few days of research/training. I expect any good developer to be able to take a project from initial customer request to completion with little or no help from others. Am I being unreasonable? What constitutes a valuable developer? What should be expected of an entry level developer? What should be expected of an experienced developer? I realize that everyone is different but there has to be some sort of expectations standard, right? I have been giving the test project below to potential canidates to weed them out. Good idea? Too much? Too little? Please let me know what you think. Thanks. Project ID: T00001 Description: Order Entry System Deadline: 1 Week Scope The scope of this project is to develop a fully function order entry system. Screen/Form design must be user friendly and promote efficient data entry and modification. User experience (Navigation, Screen/Form layouts, Look and Feel…) is at the developer’s discretion. System may be developed using any technologies that conform to the technical and system requirements. Deliverables Complete source code Database setup instructions (Scripts or restorable backup) Application installation instructions (Installer or installation procedure) Any necessary documentation Technical Requirements Server Platform – Windows XP / Windows Server 2003 / SBS Client Platform – Windows XP Web Browser (If applicable) – IE 8 Database – At developer’s discretion (Must be a relational SQL database.) Language – At developer’s discretion All data must be normalized. (+) All data must maintain referential integrity. (++) All data must be indexed for optimal performance. System must handle concurrency. System Requirements Customer Maintenance Customer records must have unique ID. Customer data will include Name, Address, Phone, etc. User must be able to perform all CRUD (Create, Read, Update, and Delete) operations on the Customer table. User must be able to enter a specific Customer ID to edit. User must be able to pull up a sortable/queryable search grid/utility to find a customer to edit. Validation must be performed prior to database commit. Customer record cannot be deleted if the customer has an order in the system. (++) Inventory Maintenance Part records must have unique ID. Part data will include Description, Price, UOM (Unit of Measure), etc. User must be able to perform all CRUD operations on the part table. User must be able to enter a specific Part ID to edit. User must be able to pull up a sortable/queryable search grid/utility to find a part to edit. Validation must be performed prior to database commit. Part record cannot be deleted if the part has been used in an order. (++) Order Entry Order records must have a unique auto-incrementing key (Order Number). Order data must be split into a header/detail structure. (+) Order can contain an infinite number of detail records. Order header data will include Order Number, Customer ID (++), Order Date, Order Status (Open/Closed), etc. Order detail data will include Part Number (++), Quantity, Price, etc. User must be able to perform all CRUD operations on the order tables. User must be able to enter a specific Order Number to edit. User must be able to pull up a sortable/queryable search grid/utility to find an order to edit. User must be able to print an order form from within the order entry form. Validation must be performed prior to database commit. Reports Customer Listing – All Customers in the system. Inventory Listing – All parts in the system. Open Order Listing – All open orders in system. Customer Order Listing – All orders for specific customer. All reports must include sorts and filter functions where applicable. Ex. Customer Listing by range of Customer IDs. Open Order Listing by date range.

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• SqlBulkCopy unusual TimeOut Error

  - by ChrisHDog

  I have a SqlBulkCopy operation that is taking data from an MS-Access 2007 database (via OleDbConnection) and using SqlBulkCopy to transfer that data to a SQL Server database. This has previously been working and continues to work for one MS-Access database, but not the other. I get the error message: Timeout expired. The timeout period elapsed prior to completion of the operation or the server is not responding. It is hard to believe it is a timeout ast the oledbCommand.CommandTimeout = 0 the sqlBulkCopy.BulkCopyTimeout = 0 and on either side (MS-Access and SQL Server the timeouts have now been set to 0). Are there other issues/exceptions that the above error message could be hiding? Is there a way to determine what the base cause of a sqlBulkCopy.WriteToServer exception is (there doesn't appear to be any inner exceptions etc...)

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• Hudson Maven build fails using workspace POM, works when pointing to development copy

  - by Deejay

  I'm developing a series of web applications using Eclipse IDE, Maven, SVN, and Hudson for CI. When I specify the "Root POM" option in my Hudson job to be the copy of pom.xml in its workspace directory, the build fails citing compilation failure due to missing classpath entries. [ERROR] BUILD FAILURE [INFO] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [INFO] Compilation failure C:\Users\djones\.hudson\jobs\Store\workspace\trunk\src\main\java\com\app\store\model\User.java:[24,42] package org.hibernate.validator.constraints does not exist C:\Users\djones\.hudson\jobs\Store\workspace\trunk\src\main\java\com\app\store\dao\UserGroupHibernateSupportDao.java:[8,20] package org.hibernate does not exist C:\Users\djones\.hudson\jobs\Store\workspace\trunk\src\main\java\com\app\store\dao\UserGroupHibernateSupportDao.java:[10,49] package org.springframework.orm.hibernate3.support does not exist When I specify the "Root POM" to be the copy of pom.xml in my Eclipse workspace, it builds just fine. It builds fine from Eclipse too. I want to move Hudson over to a separate machine so several developers can use it, so I can't very well point to my own development workspace to give it a POM. If I try putting an SVN URL in the "root pom.xml" option, it says file not found. What should I be entering here for a project worked on by several developers, and hosted in an SVN repository?

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• Logging into oracle db as a global user

  - by kineas

  We are trying to shape up an old, 2 tier, Delphi based application. It originally uses database authentication, we'd like to transform the db user accounts to global users, so an OID server could perform the authentication instead of the database. The Delphi program can no longer log into the database if the account is a global user. I'm trying to understand the login protocol, so far without results. Similar thing happens with SQLDeveloper, I can't connect as a global user. SQLPlus however works with both kinds of users. We checked the information flow with Wireshark. When the dbserver asks back for a password, the SQLPlus sends it, while the SQLDeveloper doesn't send a password when attempting to connect as a global user. The client sends the application name too in the login request. Is it possible that we have to store the client app name in the LDAP itself?

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• Checking for valid email addresses

  - by Roland

  I'm running a website with more than 60 000 registered users. Every week notifications are send to these users via email, now I've noticed some of the mail addresses do not exists anymore eg. the domain address is valid but the email name en asdas@ is not valid anymore since person does not work at a company anymore etc. Now I'm looping through the database and doing some regular expression checks and checking if the MX records exist with the following two functions function verify_email($email){ if(!preg_match('/^[_A-z0-9-]+((\.|\+)[_A-z0-9-]+)*@[A-z0-9-]+(\.[A-z0-9-]+)*(\.[A-z]{2,4})$/',$email)){ return false; } else { return true; } } // Our function to verify the MX records function verify_email_dns($email){ list($name, $domain) = split('@',$email); if(!checkdnsrr($domain,'MX')){ return false; } else { return true; } } If the email address is in an invalid format or the domain does not exists I delete the users account. Are there any methods I could use to check if the email address still exists or not if the domain name is valid and the email address is in the correct format? For example [email protected] does not exist anymore but test.com is a valid domain name.

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• Unit Testing a rails 2.3.5 plugin

  - by brad

  I'm writing a new plugin for a rails 2.3.5 app. I've included an app directory (which makes it an engine) so i can easily load some extra routes. Not sure if that affects anything. Anyway, in the test directory i have two files: test_helper.rb and my_plugin_test.rb These files were generated automatically using script/generate plugin my_plugin When I go to vendor/plugins/my_plugin directory and run rake test they don't seem to run. I get the following console output: (in /Users/me/Repos/my_app/source/trunk/vendor/plugins/my_plugin) /Users/me/.rvm/rubies/jruby-1.4.0/bin/jruby -I"lib:lib:test" "/Users/me/.rvm/gems/jruby-1.4.0/gems/rake-0.8.7/lib/rake/rake_test_loader.rb" "test/my_plugin_test.rb" So it obviously sees my test file, but none of the tests inside get run, I just get back to my console prompt. What am I missing here? I figured the generated code would work out of the box Here are the two files test_helper.rb require 'rubygems' require 'active_support' require 'active_support/test_case' my_plugin_test.rb require 'test_helper' class MyPluginTest < ActiveSupport::TestCase # Replace this with your real tests. test "the truth" do assert true end test "Factories are supported" do assert_not_nil Factory end end File structure vendor - plugins - my_plugin - app - config - routes.rb - generators - my_plugin - some generator files.rb - lib - my_plugin.rb - my_plugin - my_plugin_lib_file.rb - rails - init.rb - Rakefile - tasks - my_plugin_tasks.rake - test - test_helper.rb - my_plugin_test.rb

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• How much memory I would need for something like this?

  - by Vdas Dorls

  If I create social portal similar to Twitter (not exactly twitter, but similar in my country), how much space would I need for images? I guess with 100 gb of disk space it won't be enough, so could you please give me some information how much I would exactly need? And is there any suggestions how should I add the profile images? Is there any tactics from programming side, when I could save some space uploading and hosting images for profile users? I guess, each time user changes images, it would be good to delete the previous image, correctly? In additional, how much disk space would be needed for 1000000 user profiles, if we have like 15 default images, and part of the users won't upload their own images, but use some of the default ones. So 3 questions - How much disk space I would need to hold a good social portal? Is there any suggested way to deal with pictures with PHP to save disk space? How much disk space would be needed for 1000000 user profile, if we have like 15 default images and part of the users won't upload their own, but instead use one of the 15 default images?

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• Singleton array deallocated? EXC_BAD_ACCESS

  - by lclaud

  Ok, so I have this singleton object and in it is an array that needs to be shown in a tableview. The thing is that it deallocates and after the first show, i get EXC_BAD_ACCESS in cellForRowAtIndexPath - (NSInteger)tableView:(UITableView *)tableView numberOfRowsInSection:(NSInteger)section { return [[dataBase shareddataBase].dateActive count]; } - (UITableViewCell *)tableView:(UITableView *)tableView cellForRowAtIndexPath:(NSIndexPath *)indexPath { UITableViewCell *cell=[tableView dequeueReusableCellWithIdentifier:@"celula"]; int i; i=indexPath.row; if (cell==nil) { cell=[[UITableViewCell alloc] initWithStyle:UITableViewCellStyleValue1 reuseIdentifier:@"celula"]; } count sent to dealocated instance of CFArray .. in cellForRowAtIndexPath.. WHAT is deallocating it? why? it's declarea as an NSMutableArray and has a (nonatomic,retain) property defined .. if ((i<[[dataBase shareddataBase].dateActive count])&&(i>=0)) { NSDictionary *d=[[dataBase shareddataBase].dateActive objectAtIndex:i]; cell.textLabel.text=[d objectForKey:@"detaliu"]; } return cell; }

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• SQL Query Math Gymnastics

  - by keruilin

  I have two tables of concern here: users and race_weeks. User has many race_weeks, and race_week belongs to User. Therefore, user_id is a fk in the race_weeks table. I need to perform some challenging math on fields in the race_weeks table in order to return users with the most all-time points. Here are the fields that we need to manipulate in the race_weeks table. races_won (int) races_lost (int) races_tied (int) points_won (int, pos or neg) recordable_type(varchar, Robots can race, but we're only concerned about type 'User') Just so that you fully understand the business logic at work here, over the course of a week a user can participate in many races. The race_week record represents the summary results of the user's races for that week. A user is considered active for the week if races_won, races_lost, or races_tied is greater than 0. Otherwise the user is inactive. So here's what we need to do in our query in order to return users with the most points won (actually net_points_won): Calculate each user's net_points_won (not a field in the DB). To calculate net_points, you take (1000 * count_of_active_weeks) - sum(points__won). (Why 1000? Just imagine that every week the user is spotted a 1000 points to compete and enter races. We want to factor-out what we spot the user because the user could enter only one race for the week for 100 points, and be sitting on 900, which we would skew who actually EARNED the most points.) This one is a little convoluted, so let me know if I can clarify further.

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• Looking for a web based, embeddable file manager

  - by Kristi H.

  I'm looking for a web based, embeddable file manager. I haven't found anything suitable through Google or the Stack Overflow archives. Does anyone know of a file manager that meets the following criteria? The file manager must… …be embeddable (e.g. Flash or a Java applet) …run from my server (no storing uploads in a remote location) …be licensed for business use (fees are okay) …let me disable uploads. Users shouldn't be able to upload files, only download them …allow me to tag files and/or place them in folders …let me disable authentication or handle it from the backend. My app already has a login system and I don't want to make users log in twice …allow users to select and download multiple files …have an attractive interface The file manager should… …have an external config file …display thumbnail previews for files …be skinnable …be actively developed or at least actively maintained Thanks for your help. I need a sophisticated file manager and I'd like to avoid writing it from scratch.

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• seting ODBC Datasource in IBM AIX server

  - by adisembiring

  Hi ..... I have develop IBM Message broker flow database application in windows xp environment. the database accessed using ODBC datasource. basically, I use compute node with esql programming to select query in database, and I set the datasource in the compute node properties. Now want to deployed my project to AIX server. but, I dont know how to set ODBC datasource in AIX server. can you help me to how to set odbc in AIX server, can you help me to solve my problem ?? Thanks

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• Is there a mechanism to distribute an app with its own JRE?

  - by user179997

  These fine folks are my users: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4MwTvtyrUQ If you don't want to enjoy the video here is the gist: my users can't tell between a file and a folder, between a browser and a web site. I need to create a Java web app (Tomcat or Jetty) and deploy it in as many of their computers, Windows and Mac. The question is: Is there a mechanism to distribute an app with its own JRE? (in the Tcl world there are starpacks and starkits, in the Python world there's py2exe and others, that's the idea). And also, is it legal? I know the VM is open source but I'm not clear about the libraries, and I know about GNU Classpath but I don't know if all the packages are there. I don't want to depend on the installed JRE or on the user having enough privileges to install one. On the Mac I don't want to depend on Apple (I had to switch from Tiger to Snow Leopard just to have Java 1.6, I can't put my users in that position) Any info greatly appreciated. Thanks! jb edit: I'm wondering if I can just paste the JRE folder under my app folder. Is that allowed?

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• How do I save a transient object that already exists in an NHibernate session?

  - by Daniel T.

  I have a Store that contains a list of Products: var store = new Store(); store.Products.Add(new Product{ Id = 1, Name = "Apples" }; store.Products.Add(new Product{ Id = 2, Name = "Oranges" }; Database.Save(store); Now, I want to edit one of the Products, but with a transient entity. This will be, for example, data from a web browser: // this is what I get from the web browser, this product should // edit the one that's already in the database that has the same Id var product = new Product{ Id = 2, Name = "Mandarin Oranges" }; store.Products.Add(product); Database.Save(store); However, trying to do it this way gives me an error: a different object with the same identifier value was already associated with the session How do I get around this problem?

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• ASP.NET MVC: run code after view has rendered (close db transaction)

  - by thermal7

  Hi, I am using ASP.NET MVC2 with NHibernate, but am facing an issue. All calls to the database via NHibernate should be inside a transaction, however code inside the view kicks off database calls in some instances. Thus there is a need to be able to commit the transaction after the view has rendered. For example displaying a list of users and their user roles you might show the user role using this code: <%: Model.UserRole.Name % This will cause a hit on the database as the UserRole is loaded using a NHibernate proxy. You can fetch the UserRole eagerly which circumvents the issue in this case, but there are cases where it is much faster to use lazy loading. Anyway, is there a way to run code after a view has rendered?

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• Why does SQL Server keep throwing exceptions?

  - by Augusto Càzares

  I have my project in .NET that uses a database in SQL Server. I'm using Linq-to-SQL, sometimes when the project throws me an exception (Constraint) in a part of the project this same error keeps showing in other part of the project when I do another thing with the database. Like when I do an insertion and I had before an exception on delete the insertion throws me the delete exception, and it remains this way until I close and open again the project. My major problem is when this happen in my online project, this error in my project causes me problems in the project I'm testing online (I use the same database). I don't know if this exception is on the memory or something but its have been causing me a lot of headaches.

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• Auto re-attach EBS volume on start-up?

  - by Phillip Oldham

  I'm setting up a database server on EC2, and I need to ensure that an EBS volume is automatically attached and is available before the database service starts up. I'm using SMF so I can test whether a particular filesystem is available before starting the db service, so there's no problem from that perspective, however I'm not quite sure how to tell the server to auto-attach the EBS volume during/after boot. What would be the best strategy for this?

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• PHP can be exclusively accessed by SWF

  - by brett

  I'm not sure how to describe this, but basically I have a PHP class file: class HelloHello { public function getSomeData($input_parameter){ // code to retrieve data from the database } public function deleteSomeData($input_parameter){ // code to delete data from the database } } This class is on the server and is part of the backend that connects with a database, and it's meant to be accessed by the frontend SWF only (not to be directly accessed). I've setup Flex to read this class and access it. But how do I make sure that someone doesn't develop a script that can call this php file directly and access its methods? For example using a script to add data in a fast automated way, or use the delete method directly, ouch. Is this a legitimate concern, or this can't be done?

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