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  • Dummy Guide to NetBeans Android Development

    - by Geertjan
    Start by setting up the Android SDK (fantastic Ubuntu instructions here), then install NBAndroid. Now you can create a new Android project: Having set up the Android SDK, you're able to select your Android platform in the IDE: The project structure created by the above templates is nice and easy to understand: Build the project and you have your APK file and everything else generated in the Files window: Nice features are included, such as code completion in Android XML files: Several other features are included, as described here, such as "Export Signed Android Package", as well as deployment to the Android emulator. Now that I have everything set up (took literally about 10 minutes from start to finish), I'm going to be experimenting a bit with Android development via NetBeans IDE.

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  • How to access shared folders from file editors?

    - by Marchosius
    I am running a xampp server on one of my other computers, and when using the brows functionality from text editors like gedit, bluefish and Eclipse/Aptana studio I can access the shares I made for the sites running on the server. Even when I right click-edit with-application with the the file browser it does not open the file in the editor. How can get this to work without having to copy the file over from the share then edit and then upload again after I am done? Similar issue when trying to upload a file to hosting server direct from the file server I have with filezilla. with this I also need to copy the file over to my pc and then from there upload to the hosting server with filezilla. EDIT: For eclipse I found a build in functionality to do this. (new-remote system connection-Enter the access details) Nothing yet on FileZilla Hope my Question is clear

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  • Behavior-Driven Development / Use case diagram

    - by Mik378
    Regarding growing of Behavior-Driven Development imposing acceptance testing, are use cases diagram useful or do they lead to an "over-documentation"? Indeed, acceptance tests representing specifications by example, as use cases promote despite of a more generic manner (since cases, not scenarios), aren't they too similar to treat them both at the time of a newly created project? From this link, one opinion is: Another realization I had is that if you do UseCases and automated AcceptanceTests you are essentially doubling your work. There is duplication between the UseCases and the AcceptanceTests. I think there is a good case to be made that UserStories + AcceptanceTests are more efficient way to work when compared to UseCases + AcceptanceTests. What to think about?

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  • Software development life cycle in the industry

    - by jiewmeng
    I am taking a module called "Requirements Analysis & Design" in a local university. Common module, I'd say (on software development life cycle (SDLC) and UML). But there is a lot of things I wonder if they are actually (strictly) practiced in the industry. For example, will a domain class diagram, an not anything extra (from design class), be strictly the output from Analysis or Discovery phase? I'm sure many times you will think a bit about the technical implementation too? Else you might end up with a design class diagram later that is very different from the original domain class diagram? I also find it hard to remember what diagrams are from Initiation, Discovery, Design etc etc. Plus these phases vary from SDLC to SDLC, I believe? So I usually will create a diagram when I think will be useful. Is it the wrong way?

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  • Self-Service Testing Cloud Enables Improved Efficiency and Productivity for Development and Quality Assurance Organizations

    - by Sandra Cheevers
    With organizations spending as much as 50 percent of their QA time with non-test related activities like setting up hardware and deploying applications and test tools, the cloud will bring obvious benefits. Oracle announced today self-service testing capabilities to enable you to deploy private or public testing clouds. These capabilities help software development and QA organizations deliver higher quality applications, while enhancing testing efficiency and reducing duration of testing projects. This kind of cloud based self-service testing provides better efficiency and agility. The Testing-as-a-Service solution offers test lab management, automatic deployment of complex multi-tier applications, rich application performance monitoring, test data management and chargeback, all in a unified workflow. For more details, read the press release Oracle Announces Oracle Enterprise Manager 12c Testing-as-a-Service Solution here.

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  • BizTalk Server 2013 beta on Windows 8 (with Visual Studio 2012, SQL Server 2012 &amp; ESB Toolkit 2.2)

    - by Vishal
    Hello BizTalkers, Finally, Microsoft released the beta version of BizTalk Server 2010 R2 and now its called BizTalk Server 2013. I had tried the BTS 2010 R2 CTP version on Windows Azure VM and particularly I was excited about the RESTful services support and ESB fully integrated into BizTalk. Well didn’t get chance to test it much, Azure & VM running cost associated . Anyways, I was waiting for this announcement and I was so much glad that Microsoft finally released the on premise one.  Check what’s new in the BizTalk Server 2013.  Officially Microsoft says that BizTalk Server 2013 “beta” is not supported on Windows 8 but I was curious to try it out. Below is my installation and configuration experience. Virtual Machine configuration: VM Ware Workstation 9.0. Windows 8 Enterprise x64. SQL Server 2012. Visual Studio 2012 Ultimate. BizTalk Server 2013 beta. Windows 8 Machine name: WIN8 Local Administrator account name: Admin First I installed Windows 8 Enterprise on a VM Ware Workstation 9.0 and updated the OS. Even Windows 8 is the new release so luckily didn’t had much updates to perform. Next Installed Visual Studio 2012 Ultimate which was straightforward installation. Next Installed SQL Server 2012. Select New SQL Server stand-alone installation & followed the steps as shown in the screenshot below.   Once the installation is finished, fire up SQL Server Management Studio and try connecting. Initially when the management studio opened up, I thought why did Visual Studio 2010 open when I tried opening SQL Management studio but well, they made the interface alike VS 2010. Cool, I like it. Next is the real deal, download the BizTalk Server 2013 and unzip to particular folder. Double click the Setup.exe and follow the steps in the screenshots. Install Microsoft BizTalk Server 2013 beta. I selected all the normal artifacts and also all the artifacts under Additional Software's. So far so good. Next Launch BizTalk Server Configuration and I used Basic configuration as shown in screenshot below. Didn’t expect to see this but “wala”. Successful in the first shot. Still I wasn’t sure & something would have gone wrong so fired up the BizTalk Server Administration Console and that too came up just fine. Still was not able to believe so created a simple messaging application:  message in –> message out and that too worked just fine. Finally I was convinced that BizTalk Server 2013 did work on Windows 8. Next step was to install the ESB Toolkit 2.2 which is now integrated with BizTalk Server and does not come as a separate standalone installation file. Again run the BizTalk Setup.exe from the unzipped folder. Install Microsoft ESB Toolkit. Next, unlike ESB Configuration would  not open up by itself so go to “Windows 8 so called Start” (I could not resist to write this) and open the ESB Toolkit Configuration wizard. Below screenshot display the configurations I used. Also you can find them on MSDN here. Finally after the ESB Configuration, I open Admin Console and checked the 2 ESB application deployed. Cool. This concludes my experience about installation and configuration of BizTalk Server 2013 Beta & ESB Toolkit 2.2 on Windows 8. I will try and keep writing about BizTalk Server 2013 and its use with RESTful Services etc. Thanks, Vishal Mody

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  • SQL Server 2008 Bring Database Online trying to open a file from a drive that doesn't exist

    - by Nai
    This is my error I am facing TITLE: Microsoft.SqlServer.Smo Set offline failed for Database 'Go3D_Retailer ------------------------------ ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: An exception occurred while executing a Transact-SQL statement or batch. (Microsoft.SqlServer.ConnectionInfo) Unable to open the physical file "E:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server\MSSQL10.MSSQLSERVER\MSSQL\DATA\ftrow_Go3D_catalog.ndf". Operating system error 2: "2(failed to retrieve text for this error. Reason: 15105)". Database 'Go3D_Retailer' cannot be opened due to inaccessible files or insufficient memory or disk space. See the SQL Server errorlog for details. ALTER DATABASE statement failed. (Microsoft SQL Server, Error: 5120) Background to this error I've been trying to move my destination logshipping database to another physical server for analysis purposes. Because I do not have domain keys and active directory set up, I had to hack my process by using the same username/password for both the source and destination servers to get the process to work. Following that, I used this guy's solution to move the destination database to another server. However, this error occurs when I try to bring the database back online. I don't have an E drive on my server and I have no idea why it's trying to open a file from E drive. I have over a 100gb left on my hard disk so it's definitely not a space issue. This sounds like a bug... Any ideas?

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  • Advice needed: Software Development [closed]

    - by Hunter McMillen
    I recently graduated from college with a B.S. in Computer Science, and am now currently attending the same college to get an M.S. in Computer Science. I know lots of things about Computer Science and programming but throughout all of my coursework I have never had to develop a single complete application, the projects were always relatively small (~300-500 lines of code). Basically, my overall I am about to have these two degrees and I feel like I don't know anything about software development or design; which doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I am looking for ways to fill in the gaps in my knowledge, I would love people's advice on these questions: 1) How do you design good software? Where do you start? 2) What makes a good software developer? Sorry for the convoluted question, but in my mind it is a convoluted situation. Thanks Edit Thanks everyone for your advice.

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  • .NET development on a Retina MacBook Pro with Windows 8

    - by Jeff
    I remember sitting in Building 5 at Microsoft with some of my coworkers, when one of them came in with a shiny new 11” MacBook Air. It was nearly two years ago, and we found it pretty odd that the OEM’s building Windows machines sucked at industrial design in a way that defied logic. While Dell and HP were in a race to the bottom building commodity crap, Apple was staying out of the low-end market completely, and focusing on better design. In the process, they managed to build machines people actually wanted, and maintain an insanely high margin in the process. I stopped buying the commodity crap and custom builds in 2006, when Apple went Intel. As a .NET guy, I was still in it for Microsoft’s stack of development tools, which I found awesome, but had back to back crappy laptops from HP and Dell. After that original 15” MacBook Pro, I also had a Mac Pro tower (that I sold after three years for $1,500!), a 27” iMac, and my favorite, a 17” MacBook Pro (the unibody style) with an SSD added from OWC. The 17” was a little much to carry around because it was heavy, but it sure was nice getting as much as eight hours of battery life, and the screen was amazing. When the rumors started about a 15” model with a “retina” screen inspired by the Air, I made up my mind I wanted one, and ordered it the day it came out. I sold my 17”, after three years, for $750 to a friend who is really enjoying it. I got the base model with the upgrade to 16 gigs of RAM. It feels solid for being so thin, and if you’ve used the third generation iPad or the newer iPhone, you’ll be just as thrilled with the screen resolution. I’m typically getting just over six hours of battery life while running a VM, but Parallels 8 allegedly makes some power improvements, so we’ll see what happens. (It was just released today.) The nice thing about VM’s are that you can run more than one at a time. Primarily I run the Windows 8 VM with four cores (the laptop is quad-core, but has 8 logical cores due to hyperthreading or whatever Intel calls it) and 8 gigs of RAM. I also have a Windows Server 2008 R2 VM I spin up when I need to test stuff in a “real” server environment, and I give it two cores and 4 gigs of RAM. The Windows 8 VM spins up in about 8 seconds. Visual Studio 2012 takes a few more seconds, but count part of that as the “ReSharper tax” as it does its startup magic. The real beauty, the thing I looked most forward to, is that beautifully crisp C# text. Consolas has never looked as good as it does at 10pt. as it does on this display. You know how it looks great at 80pt. when conference speakers demo stuff on a projector? Think that sharpness, only tiny. It’s just gorgeous. Beyond that, everything is just so responsive and fast. Builds of large projects happen in seconds, hundreds of unit tests run in seconds… you just don’t spend a lot of time waiting for stuff. It’s kind of painful to go back to my 27” iMac (which would be better if I put an SSD in it before its third birthday). Are there negatives? A few minor issues, yes. As is the case with OS X, not everything scales right. You’ll see some weirdness at times with splash screens and icons and such. Chrome’s text rendering (in Windows) is apparently not aware of how to deal with higher DPI’s, so text is fuzzy (the OS X version is super sharp, however). You’ll also have to do some fiddling with keyboard settings to use the Windows 8 keyboard shortcuts. Overall, it’s as close to a no-compromise development experience as I’ve ever had. I’m not even going to bother with Boot Camp because the VM route already exceeds my expectations. You definitely get what you pay for. If this one also lasts three years and I can turn around and sell it, it’s worth it for something I use every day.

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  • how protect intellectual property when oursourcing software development?

    - by gkdsp
    I'm a small company needing to outsource software development. I've written both functional and technical specifications for GUI developers and back-end (C or PHP) developers to implement my software application. I'm a little nervous handing over copies of these documents to request bids from numerous companies. Looking for recommendations to protect my work while outsourcing. What's the conventional wisdom? Is there generic NDA someone could send me a link to. How do others handle this situation. What would the outsource companies expect, or not expect, from me?

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  • Resources on concepts/theory behind GUI development?

    - by ShrimpCrackers
    I was wondering if there were any resources that explain concepts/theory behind GUI development. I don't mean a resource that explains how to use a GUI library, but rather how to create your own widgets. For example a resource that explains different methods on how to implement scrollable listboxes. I ask because I have an idea for a game tool where I would like to create my own widgets and let users drag and drop them onto some kind of form. How do GUI libraries usually draw widgets? I'm not sure if reskinning widgets from a GUI library fits my needs, since widget behavior needs to be dynamic based on user interaction.

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  • Hosting a server for websites, ftp and random use at home?

    - by Zolomon
    I'm wondering what's the best option for me if I want to move all my hosted websites (from a hosting company) to a server at my own home? Basically, the needs I have are: be able to host websites using PHP/ASP.NET (haven't really decided yet - both would be preferred!) enable FTP so I can create accounts for my family members to access the server for file handling SSH SSL - for secure connections (this is something you have to buy/apply for per domain, not sure if there are any server side settings that have to be made) be able to stream video remote desktop host home-brew applications that can run as services use either MySQl/SQLite/SQL for relational database storage What should I think of before I buy a server? What hardware will I need, what will limit my server? I basically want to learn networking better as I'm a software and web developer but haven't had the resources to acquire any serious toys until now. At the time of writing, most of my websites have 60 visits/day so I don't suspect them to be very demanding. Is there something I haven't thought of that I should have? What OS would you suggest I run? FreeBSD vs Windows Server vs ?

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  • Safe project development - free repositories

    - by friko
    Some time ago we started a private hobby project. We made a project on javaforge.com, created an svn repository and started developing our app. Right now we are really far with our project, but somehow we never worried if our project is really safe on such free development tool like javaforge ? I mean, what if our project would earn some money and the source code become valuable ? Could it be stolen or could somebody take it over ? We want to be sure that we are not wasting our time and want to be really sure about our project safety. Is it possible to safely develop a project in such free repository ? We would like also to start using redmine, so if you know any safe place for moving our project, please take this under consideration. Thanks a lot.

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  • Resources about cross platform application development in ANSI C [closed]

    - by Anindya Chatterjee
    Where can I get good resources for learning cross platform application development in plain ISO/ANSI C? I have cygwin and eclipse cdt with me to start in my win7 pc. I just need a couple of good resources containing all the best practices and techniques to write good and robust and scalable cross platform application. I am totally new to this cross platform business, no prior idea. Want to learn it in a proper way from the very beginning. Please help me out here.

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  • Software development magazines [closed]

    - by Sebastian
    Ive spent the last hour or so browsing the web for professional development magazines. I am mostly interested in the java platform, agile methods, "programming in general" (tutorials on languages or whatever, "hot new stuff" etc) and software craftmanship. My best finding yet was pragpub and maybe MSDN magazine. I am willing to pay and have a Zinio account if anyone knows a magazine about programming that is distributed by them. Ive already browsed a couple of related threads here on stackexchange. ACM and IEEE does not seem relevant, as Im not interested in research articles. Maybe conferences like OOPSLA as somebody mentioned in another thread. PS. I prefer if they are in pdf or readable on kindle or a tablet. DS. BR Sebastian

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  • Webinar Recording on Cross Platform Development with MonoTouch and Mono for Android

    - by Wallym
    The iPhone and Android are dominant in the marketplace. The two platforms currently have 85% of the smartphone marketplace and are continuing to grow that marketshare. Developers are being tasked with targeting these two platforms. In this session, we’ll take a high level look at how we can use c# and .NET knowledge to share code between iOS and and Android. We’ll look at linked files, using the Xamarin Mobile API, the challenges of running across platforms and frameworks, as well as other features of Visual Studio, Monotouch, MonoDevelop, and Mono for Android that allows us to write as much code that can run on both platforms.The following link is a recording on Cross Platform Development with MonoTouch and Mono for Android. I am guessing that the link only works in IE. That's out of my control.

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  • MCTS certification (Windows Communication Foundation Development)

    - by Pinchy
    Hi guys! I seriously need some advice on getting MCTS certified (Windows Communication Foundation Development) I just cannot go to a MS certification courses as they are very expensive here and far from my hometown. I want to self educate myself and I don't know where to start with. My problem is finding good study materials and sample exam questions. I haven't taken any Microsoft exams before so I have got no idea what they would ask me on the exam (70-513). Can anyone give me some ideas on how to start from scratch? Any answer will be much appreciated. Thanks

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  • Examples of "Lost art" on software technology/development

    - by mamcx
    With the advent of a new technology, some old ideas - despite been good - are forgotten in the process. I read a lot how some "new" thing was already present in Lisp like 60 years ago, but only recently resurface with other name or on top of another language. Now look like the new old thing is build functional, non-mutable, non-locking-thread stuff... and that make me wonder what have been "lost" in the art of development of software? What ideas are almost forgotten, waiting for resurface? One of my, I remember when I code in foxpro. The idea of have a full stack to develop database apps without impedance mismatch is something I truly miss. In the current languages, I never find another environment that match how easy was develop in fox back them. What else is missing?

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  • asp.net website development component / APIs

    - by Haseeb Asif
    I have been assigned a new website project to work on in my organization where my role demand to finalize all the tools/technologies/controls/api etc. That website will something like online store, where every user has his online store as subdomain e.g. user1.myprojectdomain.com I have been researching a number of things to use and need your suggestions in following levels ASP.NET web forms vs Asp.net MVC: Prefering asp.net webforms due to following reason with N Tier Architecture Rapid application Development large set of Toolbox/controls And mainly due to our team skill set Errorlogging Elmah seems to be a nice library Forums Forums Yetanotherforums On line Live Chat still looking for something (Working on SignalR) Signups with Social Media Engage by Janrain And I need help that how can Manage sub domains. Do we create a Virtual Directory/application for every user in the IIS on runtime or we can do some thing else

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  • Clock drift even though NTPD running

    - by droffo
    I'm having a problem with the clock drifting on my PC. I'M running Ubuntu 10.10 on an somewhat crusty IBM e-server (1.5GB RAM, 2.4GHz CPU) ntpd is running (started at run level 2) servers are defined: server 1.us.pool.ntp.org server 2.us.pool.ntp.org server 3.us.pool.ntp.org server time.nrc.ca server ntp1.cmc.ec.gc.ca server ntp2.cmc.ec.gc.ca server wuarchive.wustl.edu server clock.psu.edu Looking at the log file, it would seem that the ntp daemon is running, but the system clock never seems to be set, however. If I manually set the time from a Casio "atomic" watch, the date/time displayed by the Clock applet drifts out of sync over time. Looking at the log file (below) it would seem the ntp daemon started ok and is running. So I am totally flummoxed right now :-( Here's a copy of my ntp.log file.

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  • Process development lifecycle in Oracle BPM 11g

    - by mesriniv
       Oracle BPM 11g platform provides two modeling tools tailored to different audience. The BPM Process Composer component is a web-based, role-driven, collaborative platform for discovery, design and documentation of business processes aimed at business audience. It empowers the business user to participate in the definition, feedback and design of business processes. The other modeling tool is Oracle BPM Studio that runs in the JDeveloper IDE .  Irrespective of the tool used, same BPMN and related artifacts are authored - that is , this is not import/export but just multiple tools working with same assets. In addition to BPMN 2.0, both tools provides editors for process data, organizational roles, human tasks (including assignment and user interface), business rules. The Oracle BPM design-time repository (Oracle Metadata Services Repository) is the glue that facilitates shared work environment across multiple BPM Composer and Studio clients.This document explains how to create snapshots and versions of your BPM projects and captures best practices for shared process development lifecycle. http://java.net/projects/oraclebpmsuite11g/downloads/directory/Samples/bpm-122-processdevelopment-lifecycle

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  • quick prototyping in project design & development

    - by lurscher
    i'm currently working on a project in my spare time (mostly 3-4 hours from monday to friday, and up to 6 hours on sundays) and i've found redmine very useful to hold a record of development tasks. However, there are some stuff, specially when you are trying to prototype or brainstorm a redesign of a set of related classes, that the best tool that i've found for this still is a sheet of paper and a pen. I want to understand if maybe i'm just short of getting to work properly with existing tools. Do you find the use of a notebook or a journal an unavoidable part of software design? are there better alternatives? how do you organize pen-and-paper work and other software management tools like redmine?

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  • How to get innovation in product development?

    - by simonsabin
    I was at Redgate last week and say plastered all over the canteen wall flip chart sheets with ideas scrawled over them. I was going to take a photo but thought it might not be allowed. I asked what it was all about and they told me that ALL the development team are going to stop working on what they are doing and do whatever they want. Whatever they want? yes So thats the whole team working on something? No, it can be individual or in groups. Having worked in product teams before I and the others...(read more)

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  • Looking for suggestions for hosting Windows 2000 Server in the cloud / VPS / etc?

    - by JohnyD
    I have a Windows 2000 Server, currently virtualized in Hyper-V, that I would like to get running off-site as a backup (cloud, VPS, etc). You can't virtualize in EC2 and I'm fairly certain there are no Server 2000 AMI's floating about (correct me if I'm wrong!). If anyone has a recommendation on how I can get a virtualized Windows 2000 Server running in a secure, remote environment I would be grateful. As far as locations go I'd be interested in both North America as well as Australia and Europe. In a nutshell, we're ploughing our way out of a legacy codebase and this server is the last that remains of the legacy apps. However, it is still very much used by our clients. Everything is backed up each night (data, images, etc) to tape which is then taken offsite. However, in the event of a fire I would love to have a backup legacy server to point DNS records to. So while I am rebuilding from the ashes our services would already be available. It would save a lot of time and make my managers all the more happy (and that's what it's all about, riighhtt? :D) Thank you all for your suggestions. Please let me know if I've left out any important information. Additional info: - the legacy codebase does not function properly in Server 2003

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  • Proxied calls not working as expected

    - by AndyH
    I have been modifying an application to have a cleaner client/server split to allow for load splitting and resource sharing etc. Everything is written to an interface so it was easy to add a remoting layer to the interface using a proxy. Everything worked fine. The next phase was to add a caching layer to the interface and again this worked fine and speed was improved but not as much as I would have expected. On inspection it became very clear what was going on. I feel sure that this behavior has been seen many times before and there is probably a design pattern to solve the problem but it eludes me and I'm not even sure how to describe it. It is easiest explained with an example. Let's imagine the interface is interface IMyCode { List<IThing> getLots( List<String> ); IThing getOne( String id ); } The getLots() method calls getOne() and fills up the list before returning. The interface is implemented at the client which is proxied to a remoting client which then calls the remoting server which in turn calls the implementation at the server. At the client and the server layers there is also a cache. So we have :- Client interface | Client cache | Remote client | Remote server | Server cache | Server interface If we call getOne("A") at the client interface, the call is passed to the client cache which faults. This then calls the remote client which passes the call to the remote server. This then calls the server cache which also faults and so the call is eventually passed to the server interface which actually gets the IThing. In turn the server cache is filled and finally the client cache also. If getOne("A") is again called at the client interface the client cache has the data and it gets returned immediately. If a second client called getOne("B") it would fill the server cache with "B" as well as it's own client cache. Then, when the first client calls getOne("B") the client cache faults but the server cache has the data. This is all as one would expect and works well. Now lets call getLots( [ "C", "D" ] ). This works as you would expect by calling getOne() twice but there is a subtlety here. The call to getLots() cannot directly make use of the cache. Therefore the sequence is to call the client interface which in turn calls the remote client, then the remote server and eventually the server interface. This then calls getOne() to fill the list before returning. The problem is that the getOne() calls are being satisfied at the server when ideally they should be satisfied at the client. If you imagine that the client/server link is really slow then it becomes clear why the client call is more efficient than the server call once the client cache has the data. This example is contrived to illustrate the point. The more general problem is that you cannot just keep adding proxied layers to an interface and expect it to work as you would imagine. As soon as the call goes 'through' the proxy any subsequent calls are on the proxied side rather than 'self' side. Have I failed to learn or not learned something correctly? All this is implemented in Java and I haven't used EJBs. It seems that the example may be confusing. The problem is nothing to do with cache efficiencies. It is more to do with an illusion created by the use of proxies or AOP techniques in general. When you have an object whose class implements an interface there is an assumption that a call on that object might make further calls on that same object. For example, public String getInternalString() { return InetAddress.getLocalHost().toString(); } public String getString() { return getInternalString(); } If you get an object and call getString() the result depends where the code is running. If you add a remoting proxy to the class then the result could be different for calls to getString() and getInternalString() on the same object. This is because the initial call gets 'deproxied' before the actual method is called. I find this not only confusing but I wonder how I can control this behavior especially as the use of the proxy may be by a third party. The concept is fine but the practice is certainly not what I expected. Have I missed the point somewhere?

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