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  • How should I pitch moving to an agile/iterative development cycle with mandated 3-week deployments?

    - by Wayne M
    I'm part of a small team of four, and I'm the unofficial team lead (I'm lead in all but title, basically). We've largely been a "cowboy" environment, with no architecture or structure and everyone doing their own thing. Previously, our production deployments would be every few months without being on a set schedule, as things were added/removed to the task list of each developer. Recently, our CIO (semi-technical but not really a programmer) decided we will do deployments every three weeks; because of this I instantly thought that adopting an iterative development process (not necessarily full-blown Agile/XP, which would be a huge thing to convince everyone else to do) would go a long way towards helping manage expectations properly so there isn't this far-fetched idea that any new feature will be done in three weeks. IMO the biggest hurdle is that we don't have ANY kind of development approach in place right now (among other things like no CI or automated tests whatsoever). We don't even use Waterfall, we use "Tell Developer X to do a task, expect him to do everything and get it done". Are there any pointers that would help me start to ease us towards an iterative approach and A) Get the other developers on board with it and B) Get management to understand how iterative works? So far my idea involves trying to set up a CI server and get our build process automated (it takes about 10-20 minutes right now to simply build the application to put it on our development server), since pushing tests and/or TDD will be met with a LOT of resistance at this point, and constantly force us to break larger projects into smaller chunks that could be done iteratively in a three-week cycle; my only concern is that, unless I'm misunderstanding, an agile/iterative process may or may not release the software (depending on the project scope you might have "working" software after three weeks, but there isn't enough of it that works to let users make use of it), while I think the expectation here from management is that there will always be something "ready to go" in three weeks, and that disconnect could cause problems. On that note, is there any literature or references that explains the agile/iterative approach from a business standpoint? Everything I've seen only focuses on the developers, how to do it, but nothing seems to describe it from the perspective of actually getting the buy-in from the businesspeople.

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  • Given the presentation model pattern, is the view, presentation model, or model responsible for adding child views to an existing view at runtime?

    - by Ryan Taylor
    I am building a Flex 4 based application using the presentation model design pattern. This application will have several different components to it as shown in the image below. The MainView and DashboardView will always be visible and they each have corresponding presentation models and models as necessary. These views are easily created by declaring their MXML in the application root. <s:HGroup width="100%" height="100%"> <MainView width="75% height="100%"/> <DashboardView width="25%" height="100%"/> </s:HGroup> There will also be many WidgetViewN views that can be added to the DashboardView by the user at runtime through a simple drop down list. This will need to be accomplished via ActionScript. The drop down list should always show what WidgetViewN has already been added to the DashboardView. Therefore some state about which WidgetViewN's have been created needs to be stored. Since the list of available WidgetViewN and which ones are added to the DashboardView also need to be accessible from other components in the system I think this needs to be stored in a Model object. My understanding of the presentation model design pattern is that the view is very lean. It contains as close to zero logic as is practical. The view communicates/binds to the presentation model which contains all the necessary view logic. The presentation model is effectively an abstract representation of the view which supports low coupling and eases testability. The presentation model may have one or more models injected in in order to display the necessary information. The models themselves contain no view logic whatsoever. So I have a several questions around this design. Who should be responsible for creating the WidgetViewN components and adding these to the DashboardView? Is this the responsibility of the DashboardView, DashboardPresentationModel, DashboardModel or something else entirely? It seems like the DashboardPresentationModel would be responsible for creating/adding/removing any child views from it's display but how do you do this without passing in the DashboardView to the DashboardPresentationModel? The list of available and visible WidgetViewN components needs to be accessible to a few other components as well. Is it okay for a reference to a WidgetViewN to be stored/referenced in a model? Are there any good examples of the presentation model pattern online in Flex that also include creating child views at runtime?

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  • Block elements vs inline elements in HTML: why the distinction?

    - by EpsilonVector
    The distinction between block and inline elements always seemed strange to me. The whole difference is that a block element takes up the entire width thus forcing a line break before and after the element, and an inline element only takes up as much as the content. Why not just have one type of element- an inline element where you can also apply custom height/width, and use that? You want line breaks? Insert a <br />, or maybe add a special tag in the CSS for that behavior. The way it's now, I don't see it solving any problem, and instead it only forces a property that in my opinion should be decided by a designer. So why the two types?

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  • Returning null vs Throwing exceptions

    - by Svish
    Is in a bit of disagreement with a more experienced developer on this issue, and was wondering what you guys here think about this. Environment is Java, EJB 3, services, etc. The code I wrote calls a service to get things and to create things. Problem was that I got null pointer exceptions in places that didn't make sense. For example when I asked the service to create an object, I got null back. And when I tried to look up an object with an id I knew existed, I still got null back. Was like it was ignoring me. Spent some time trying to figure out what was wrong in my code (since I'm less experienced I usually assume I have messed up). Turns out the reason was security. If the user principal using my service didn't have the right permissions to use the service I called from my service, then that service simply returned null. The services that are here already are usually not documented either, so this is just something you have to know... somehow... So here is the thing: I mean that this is rather confusing as a developer interacting with this service. To me it would make much more sense if that service thew an exception which would tell me that hey, you don't have the proper permissions to get info about this thing or to create this new thing. I would then immediately know why my service wasn't working as expected. However, he argued that asking is not wrong. Exceptions should only be thrown when there is an error and asking for a thing is not an error. Even if you don't have permission to "see" that the thing you asked for. The things are often looked up in a GUI by users and for those users not having the right permissions, these things simply "do not exist". So, in short: Asking is not wrong, hence no exception. Get methods return null because to those users those things "doesn't exist". Create methods return null because nothing was created, since the user wasn't allowed to create anything. So, what do you guys think? Is this normal and/or good practice? I prefer exceptions as I prefer throwing and catching exceptions because I find it much easier to know what's going on. So I would for example also prefer to throw a NotFoundException if you asked for an id which didn't exist, rather than returning null. Anyways, just curious to what others think about this as I'm not the most experienced developer yet.

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  • C#.NET (AForge) against Java (JavaCV, JMF) for video processing

    - by Leron
    I'm starting to get really confused looking deeper and deeper at video processing world and searching for optimal choices. This is the reason to post this and some other questions to try and navigate myself in the best possible way. I really like Java, working with Java, coding with Java, at the same time C# is not that different from Java and Visual Studio is maybe the best IDE I've been working with. So even though I really want to do my projects in Java so I can get better and better Java programmer at the same time I'm really attract to video processing and even though I'm still at the beginning of this journey I want to take the right path. So I'm really in doubt could Java be used in a production environment for serious video processing software. As the title says I already have been looking at maybe the two most used technologies for video processing in Java - JMF and JavaCV and I'm starting to think that even they are used and they provide some functionality, when it comes to real work and real project that's not the first thing that comes to once mind, I mean to someone that have a professional opinion about this. On the other hand I haven't got the time to investigate .NET (c# specificly) options but even AForge looks a lot more serious library then those provided for Java. So in general -either ways I'm gonna spend a lot of time learning some technology and trying to do something that make sense with it, but my plan is at the end the thing that I'll eventually come up to be my headline project. To represent my skills and eventually help me find a job in the field. So I really don't want to spend time learning something that will give me the programming result I want but at the same time is not something that is needed in the real world development. So what is your opinion, which language, technology is better for this specific issue. Which one worths more in terms that I specified above?

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  • How do programmer-seeking employers see Bioinformatics degree?

    - by Max
    I love programming, but I also love biology. Basically Bioinformatics sounds fun to me. However, there is a fat chance that I won't get a Bioinformatics job and will be forced to build my career around regular programming. Therefore a question: does it matter (much) for an employer if he is looking for a regular programmer but finds a Bioinformatics diploma? Or is it the same in the long run as a regular Informatics diploma?

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  • need explanation on amortization in algorithm

    - by Pradeep
    I am a learning algorithm analysis and came across a analysis tool for understanding the running time of an algorithm with widely varying performance which is called as amortization. The autor quotes " An array with upper bound of n elements, with a fixed bound N, on it size. Operation clear takes O(n) time, since we should dereference all the elements in the array in order to really empty it. " The above statement is clear and valid. Now consider the next content: "Now consider a series of n operations on an initially empty array. if we take the worst case viewpoint, the running time is O(n^2), since the worst case of a sigle clear operation in the series is O(n) and there may be as many as O(n) clear operations in the series." From the above statement how is the time complexity O(n^2)? I did not understand the logic behind it. if 'n' operations are performed how is it O(n ^2)? Please explain what the autor is trying to convey..

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  • Backward compatibility with event-sourcing

    - by Tomas Jansson
    How do you stay backward compatible with event-sourcing? Let say you release a version that has one kind of event, let call it X. You know how to handle that event in all the systems that extracts the events from the event source. In a later release you make a change to event X or delete it, how do you stay backward compatible with that? To have a fully functional system you need to be able to handle the old event as the same time as you need to handle the updated version. Or if you delete that event type, then you will be stuck with code that is only there to handle legacy events which in my head can be a little bit messy in the long run.

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  • C++ Library API Design

    - by johannes
    I'm looking for a good resource for learning about good API design for C++ libraries, looking at shared objects/dlls etc. There are many resources on writing nice APIs, nice classes, templates and so on at source level, but barely anything about putting things together in shared libs and executables. Books like Large-Scale C++ Software Design by John Lakos are interesting but massively outdated. What I'm looking for is advice i.e. on handling templates. With templates in my API I often end up with library code in my executable (or other library) so if I fix a bug in there I can't simply roll out the new library but have to recompile and redistribute all clients of that code. (and yes, I know some solutions like trying to instantiate at least the most common versions inside the library etc.) I'm also looking for other caveats and things to mind for keeping binary compatibility while working on C++ libraries. Is there a good website or book on such things?

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  • Why Beta versions have so many bugs?

    - by Eugene
    When I worked in Microsoft on MSE antivirus, we had several stages of pre-release: Alpha, Beta, RC. The biggest difference between these stages were bug fixes. Each time we fixed more bugs, and usually updated some minor features. Apple works in the same way. Look here: http://www.techrepublic.com/article/pro-tip-how-to-create-a-bootable-usb-installer-for-os-x-yosemite/ They released a beta of Yosemite OS, but the beta is full of bugs. Why do these big companies work like this? Isn't it better to release a beta version that was tested very thoroughly but one that just doesn't provide all the features that the final version will provide?

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  • What are some small, but extendable game ideas to use for inspiration?

    - by Earlz
    I recently came across the game Dopewars(or more generically, Drugwars). Now this is an extremely simple game to implement. A trivial basic implementation could be done in a couple of days, at the most. And it's extremely extendable. Now, my question is what other games are out there that follow this same kind of "difficulty level" for implementation? A game that is actually entertaining, yet trivial to implement, and can easily be extended?

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  • Doing "it all from scratch" is different than OS-specifics

    - by Bigyellow Bastion
    Many people tell me that in order to write my own operating system I need to understand the inner-workings of the one I'll be writing it on. That's nonsense. I mean I understand it for education purposes, such as studying the workings of a current OS to gain better knowledge of writing one myself. But the OS I'm writing it on is nothing but my scratchpad offering me software to write the code in, and software to assemble/compile my code into executable instructions. I've been told that I need to decide which OS I'm writing it on before I write it, but all I need is an assembler to produce flat binary, or a compiler to produce object code and a linker to link it into a flat binary .bin file. Why do people say it matters which OS you make an OS on, when it doesn't?

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  • Does the type of prior employers matter when applying for a new job?

    - by Peter Smith
    Is there a bias in industry regarding the kind of previous employers an applicant has had (Government contractors, researchers, small business, large corporations)? I'm currently working for a University as a generalist programmer and I like my job here. But I'm worried that if I had to switch jobs down the road and apply for a corporate job that my resume would be dismissed based on the fact that I'm working in academia.

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  • How would it be if browsers natively *hosted* JavaScript frameworks? [closed]

    - by João Ramos
    More than 20 million websites nowadays are running jQuery and more than 1/5 of the top million websites are also doing so. What if we, as designers and developers, could take advantage of locally cached JavaScript libraries like jQuery, Prototype, script.aculo.us, etc? Wouldn't it be great if we could provide users with faster websites and experiences? EDIT: My apologies, I ment to ask how hould it be if browsers hosted JavaScript frameworks, not support them. Actually, there's no sense in my previous question. Sorry for that.

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  • A big flat text file or a HTML site for language documentation?

    - by Bad Sector
    A project of mine is a small embeddable Tcl-like scripting language, LIL. While i'm mostly making it for my own use, i think it is interesting enough for others to use, so i want it to have a nice (but not very "wordy") documentation. So far i'm using a single flat readme.txt file. It explains the language's syntax, features, standard functions, how to use the C API, etc. Also it is easy to scan and read in almost every environment out there, from basic text-only terminals to full-fledged high-end graphical desktop environments. However, while i tried to keep things nicely formatted (as much as this is possible in plain text), i still think that being a big (and growing) wall of text, it isn't as easy on the eyes as it could be. Also i feel that sometimes i'm not writing as much as i want in order to avoid expanding the text too much. So i thought i could use another project of mine, QuHelp, which is basically a help site generator for sites like this one with a sidebar that provides a tree of topics/subtopics and offline full text search. With this i can use HTML to format the documentation and if i use QuHelp for some other project that uses LIL, i can import LIL's documentation as part of the other project's documentation. However converting the existing documentation to QuHelp/HTML isn't a small task, especially when it comes to functions (i'll need to put more detail on them than what currently exists in the readme.txt file). Also it loses the wide range of availability that it currently has (even if QuHelp's generated code degrades gracefully down to console-only web browsers, plain text is readable from everywhere, including from popular editors such as Vim and Emacs - i had someone once telling me that he likes LIL's documentation because it is readable without leaving his editor). So, my question is simply this: should i keep the documentation as it is now in the form of a single readme.txt file or should i convert it to something like the site i mentioned above? There is also the option to do both, but i'm not sure if i'll be able to always keep them in sync or if it is worth the effort. After asking around in IRC i've got mixed answers: some liked the wide availability of the single text file, others said that it is looks as bad as a man page (personally i don't mind that - i can read man pages just fine - but other people might have issues reading them). What do you think?

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  • Strategy for managing lots of pictures for a website

    - by Nate
    I'm starting a new website that will (hopefully) have a lot of user generated pictures. I'm trying to figure out the best way to store and serve these pictures. The CMS I'm using (umbraco) has a media library that puts a folder on the server for each image. Inside of there you can have different sizes of that same image. That folder has an ID on it and the database has additional information for that image along with the ID of the folder. This works great for small sites, but what if the pictures get up to 10,000, 100,000 or 1,000,000? It seems like the lookup on the directory would take a long time to find the correct folder. I'm on windows 2008 if that makes a difference. I'm not so worried about load. I can load balance my server pretty easily and replicate the images across the servers. The nature of the site won't have a lot of users on it either, but it could have a lot of pics. Thanks. -Nate EDIT After some thought I think I'm going to create a directory for each user under a root image folder then have user's pictures under that. I would be pretty stoked if I had even 5,000 users, so that shouldn't be too bad of a linear lookup. If it does get slow I will break it down into folders like /media/a/adam/image123.png. If it ever gets really big I will expand the above method to build a bigger tree. That would take a LOT of content though.

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  • How to attach WAR file in email from jenkins

    - by birdy
    We have a case where a developer needs to access the last successfully built WAR file from jenkins. However, they can't access the jenkins server. I'd like to configure jenkins such that on every successful build, jenkins sends the WAR file to this user. I've installed the ext-email plugin and it seems to be working fine. Emails are being received along with the build.log. However, the WAR file isn't being received. The WAR file lives on this path in the server: /var/lib/jenkins/workspace/Ourproject/dist/our.war So I configured it under Post build actions like this: The problem is that emails are sent but the WAR file isn't being attached. Do I need to do something else?

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  • Is Information Technology really Engineering?

    - by RPK
    While travelling I met a mathematician who was sitting near me. In a discussion he said: "...there is nothing like engineering in IT or rather programming". A true engineering is what Architecture is, what Electrical and Mechanical is. It made me think and I was puzzled. A percent of my brain agreed also because in Indian Army, there is no subject like Computer Engineering in the Engineering Corps. They don't consider programming as engineering. This is what I heard few years back, I don't know what Indian Army thinks now. What are your views?

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  • What do you think of this iterator syntax?

    - by ChaosPandion
    I've been working on an ECMAScript dialect for quite some time now and have reached a point where I am comfortable adding new language features. I would love to hear some thoughts and suggestions on the syntax. Example iterator Numbers { yield 1; yield 2; yield 3; if (true) { yield break; } yield continue iterator { yield 4; yield 5; yield 6; }; } Syntax IteratorDeclaration:     iterator  Identifier  {  IteratorBody  } IteratorExpression:     iterator  Identifieropt  {  IteratorBody  } IteratorBody:     IteratorStatementsopt IteratorStatements:     IteratorStatement IteratorStatementsopt IteratorStatement:     Statement but not one of BreakStatement ContinueStatement ReturnStatement     YieldStatement     YieldBreakStatement     YieldContinueStatement YieldStatement:     yield  Expression  ; YieldBreakStatement:     yield  break  ; YieldContinueStatement:     yield  continue  Expression  ;

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  • OO Design, how to model Tonal Harmony?

    - by David
    I have started to write a program in C++ 11 that would analyse chords, scales, and harmony. The biggest problem I am having in my design phase, is that the note 'C' is a note, a type of chord (Cmaj, Cmin, C7, etc), and a type of key (the key of Cmajor, Cminor). The same issue arises with intervals (minor 3rd, major 3rd). I am using a base class, Token, that is the base class for all 'symbols' in the program. so for example: class Token { public: typedef shared_ptr<Token> pointer_type; Token() {} virtual ~Token() {} }; class Command : public Token { public: Command() {} pointer_type execute(); } class Note : public Token; class Triad : public Token; class MajorTriad : public Triad; // CMajorTriad, etc class Key : public Token; class MinorKey : public Key; // Natural Minor, Harmonic minor,etc class Scale : public Token; As you can see, to create all the derived classes (CMajorTriad, C, CMajorScale, CMajorKey, etc) would quickly become ridiculously complex including all the other notes, as well as enharmonics. multiple inheritance would not work, ie: class C : public Note, Triad, Key, Scale class C, cannot be all of these things at the same time. It is contextual, also polymorphing with this will not work (how to determine which super methods to perform? calling every super class constructors should not happen here) Are there any design ideas or suggestions that people have to offer? I have not been able to find anything on google in regards to modelling tonal harmony from an OO perspective. There are just far too many relationships between all the concepts here.

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  • How to build a Singleton-like dependency injector replacement (Php)

    - by Erparom
    I know out there are a lot of excelent containers, even frameworks almost entirely DI based with good strong IoC classes. However, this doesn't help me to "define" a new pattern. (This is Php code but understandable to anyone) Supose we have: //Declares the singleton class bookSingleton { private $author; private static $bookInstance; private static $isLoaned = FALSE; //The private constructor private function __constructor() { $this->author = "Onecrappy Writer Ofcheap Novels"; } //Sets the global isLoaned state and also gets self instance public static function loanBook() { if (self::$isLoaned === FALSE) { //Book already taken, so return false return FALSE; } else { //Ok, not loaned, lets instantiate (if needed and loan) if (!isset(self::$bookInstance)) { self::$bookInstance = new BookSingleton(); } self::$isLoaned = TRUE; } } //Return loaned state to false, so another book reader can take the book public function returnBook() { $self::$isLoaned = FALSE; } public function getAuthor() { return $this->author; } } Then we get the singelton consumtion class: //Consumes the Singleton class BookBorrower() { private $borrowedBook; private $haveBookState; public function __construct() { this->haveBookState = FALSE; } //Use the singelton-pattern behavior public function borrowBook() { $this->borrowedBook = BookSingleton::loanBook(); //Check if was successfully borrowed if (!this->borrowedBook) { $this->haveBookState = FALSE; } else { $this->haveBookState = TRUE; } } public function returnBook() { $this->borrowedBook->returnBook(); $this->haveBookState = FALSE; } public function getBook() { if ($this->haveBookState) { return "The book is loaned, the author is" . $this->borrowedbook->getAuthor(); } else { return "I don't have the book, perhaps someone else took it"; } } } At last, we got a client, to test the behavior function __autoload($class) { require_once $class . '.php'; } function write ($whatever,$breaks) { for($break = 0;$break<$breaks;$break++) { $whatever .= "\n"; } echo nl2br($whatever); } write("Begin Singleton test", 2); $borrowerJuan = new BookBorrower(); $borrowerPedro = new BookBorrower(); write("Juan asks for the book", 1); $borrowerJuan->borrowBook(); write("Book Borrowed? ", 1); write($borrowerJuan->getAuthorAndTitle(),2); write("Pedro asks for the book", 1); $borrowerPedro->borrowBook(); write("Book Borrowed? ", 1); write($borrowerPedro->getAuthorAndTitle(),2); write("Juan returns the book", 1); $borrowerJuan->returnBook(); write("Returned Book Juan? ", 1); write($borrowerJuan->getAuthorAndTitle(),2); write("Pedro asks again for the book", 1); $borrowerPedro->borrowBook(); write("Book Borrowed? ", 1); write($borrowerPedro->getAuthorAndTitle(),2); This will end up in the expected behavior: Begin Singleton test Juan asks for the book Book Borrowed? The book is loaned, the author is = Onecrappy Writer Ofcheap Novels Pedro asks for the book Book Borrowed? I don't have the book, perhaps someone else took it Juan returns the book Returned Book Juan? I don't have the book, perhaps someone else took it Pedro asks again for the book Book Borrowed? The book is loaned, the author is = Onecrappy Writer Ofcheap Novels So I want to make a pattern based on the DI technique able to do exactly the same, but without singleton pattern. As far as I'm aware, I KNOW I must inject the book inside "borrowBook" function instead of taking a static instance: public function borrowBook(BookNonSingleton $book) { if (isset($this->borrowedBook) || $book->isLoaned()) { $this->haveBook = FALSE; return FALSE; } else { $this->borrowedBook = $book; $this->haveBook = TRUE; return TRUE; } } And at the client, just handle the book: $borrowerJuan = new BookBorrower(); $borrowerJuan-borrowBook(new NonSingletonBook()); Etc... and so far so good, BUT... Im taking the responsability of "single instance" to the borrower, instead of keeping that responsability inside the NonSingletonBook, that since it has not anymore a private constructor, can be instantiated as many times... making instances on each call. So, What does my NonSingletonBook class MUST be in order to never allow borrowers to have this same book twice? (aka) keep the single instance. Because the dependency injector part of the code (borrower) does not solve me this AT ALL. Is it needed the container with an "asShared" method builder with static behavior? No way to encapsulate this functionallity into the Book itself? "Hey Im a book and I shouldn't be instantiated more than once, I'm unique"

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  • Is creating a full application in Silverlight advisable?

    - by Anthony
    Is creating a huge public site fully in Silverlight really advisable? for eg. an ecommerce site. I don't want to start any debate but actually I feel Silverlight shouldn't be used for full website because the biggest loss you incur is of SEO. No search engines till today can parse the xap file and index it based on it's content. You can get around it by doing ifs and thens like if Silverlight is not supported then make an Asp.Net equivalent page for it but that only doubles our effort of making application, more than anything else. Why write double code in 2 applications meant for the same purpose. If that is the only option why not create Asp.Net application only. What are your views? Thanks in advance :)

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  • What is the best practice for when to check if something needs to be done?

    - by changokun
    Let's say I have a function that does x. I pass it a variable, and if the variable is not null, it does some action. And I have an array of variables and I'm going to run this function on each one. Inside the function, it seems like a good practice is to check if the argument is null before proceeding. A null argument is not an error, it just causes an early return. I could loop through the array and pass each value to the function, and the function will work great. Is there any value to checking if the var is null and only calling the function if it is not null during the loop? This doubles up on the checking for null, but: Is there any gained value? Is there any gain on not calling a function? Any readability gain on the loop in the parent code? For the sake of my question, let's assume that checking for null will always be the case. I can see how checking for some object property might change over time, which makes the first check a bad idea. Pseudo code example: for(thing in array) { x(thing) } Versus: for(thing in array) { if(thing not null) x(thing) } If there are language-specific concerns, I'm a web developer working in PHP and JavaScript.

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  • Html5: How to handle RGB pixel with commands from prompt ? (just a browser)

    - by Rocket Surgeon
    In the browser tools, say in debugging (any browser will do, but IE9 preferred) how can I access things like html5 canvas and modify individual pixels by typing commands from prompt ? I know, it is possible to accomplish in miriad normal ways with preparing the markup and loading the page, but what is the shortest path ? The browser is running with some content, then I hit F12-Console- what exactly should I type to cause a canvas to change ? Thank you

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  • Aggregating Excel cell contents that match a label [migrated]

    - by Josh
    I'm sure this isn't a terribly difficult thing, but it's not the type of question that easily lends itself to internet searches. I've been assigned a project for work involving a complex spreadsheet. I've done the usual =SUM and other basic Excel formulas, and I've got enough coding background that I'm able to at least fudge my way through VBA, but I'm not certain how to proceed with one part of the task. Simple version: On Sheet 1 I have a list of people (one on each row, person's name in column A), on sheet 2 I have a list of groups (one on each row, group name in column A). Each name in Sheet 1 has its own row, and I have a "Data Validation" dropdown menu where you choose the group each person belongs to. That dropdown is sourced from Sheet 2, where each group has a row. So essentially the data validation source for Sheet 1's "Group" column is just "=Sheet2!$a1:a100" or whatever. The problem is this: I want each group row in Sheet 2 to have a formula which results in a list of all the users which have been assigned to that group on Sheet 1. What I mean is something the equivalent of "select * from PeopleTab where GROUP = ThisGroup". The resulting cell would just stick the names together like "Bob Smith, Joe Jones, Sally Sanderson" I've been Googling for hours but I can't think of a way to phrase my search query to get the results I want. Here's an example of desired result (Dash-delimited. Can't find a way to make it look nice, table tags don't seem to work here): (Sheet 1) Bob Smith - Group 1 (selected from dropdown) Joe Jones - Group 2 (selected from dropdown) Sally Sanderson - Group 1 (selected from dropdown) (Sheet 2) Group 1 - Bob Smith, Sally Sanderson (result of formula) Group 2 - Joe Jones (result of formula) What formula (or even what function) do I use on that second column of sheet 2 to make a flat list out of the members of that group?

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