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  • Is It Worth It To Learn Experimental Languages

    - by Xander Lamkins
    I'm a young programmer who desires to work in the field someday as a programmer. I know Java, VB.NET and C#. I want to learn a new language (as I programmer, I know that it is valuable to extend what I know - to learn languages that make you think differently). I took a look online to see what languages were common. Everybody knows C and C++ (even those muggles who know so little about computers in general), so I thought, maybe I should push for C. C and C++ are nice but they are old. Things like Haskell and Forth (etc. etc. etc.) are old and have lost their popularity. I'm scared of learning C (or even C++) for this same reason. Java is pretty old as well and is slow because it's run by the JVM and not compiled to native code. I've been a Windows developer for quite a while. I recently started using Java - but only because it was more versatile and spreadable to other places. The problem is that it doesn't look like a very usable language for these reasons: It's most used purpose is for web application and cellphone apps (specifically Android) As far as actual products made with it, the only things that come to mind are Netbeans, Eclipse (hurrah for making and IDE with the language the IDE is for - it's like making a webpage for writing HTML/CSS/Javascript), and Minecraft which happens to be fun but laggy and bipolar as far as computer spec. support. Other than that it's used for servers but heck - I don't only want to make/configure servers. The .NET languages are nice, however: People laugh if I even mention VB.NET or C# in a serious conversation. It isn't cross-platform unless you use MONO (which is still in development and has some improvements to be made). Lacks low level stuff because, like Java with the JVM, it is run/managed by the CLR. My first thought was learning something like C and then using it to springboard into C++ (just to make sure I would have a strong understanding/base), but like I said earlier, it's getting older and older by the minute. What I've Looked Into Fantom looks nice. It's like a nice middleman between my two favorite languages and even lets me publish between the two interchangeably, but, unlike what I want, it compiles to the CLR or JVM (depending on what you publish it to) instead of it being a complete compile. D also looks nice. It seems like a very usable language and from multiple sources it appears to actually be better than C/C++. I would jump right with it, but I'm still unsure of its success because it obviously isn't very mainstream at this point. There are a couple others that looked pretty nice that focused on other things such as Opa with web development and Go by GOOGLE. My Question Is it worth learning these "experimental" languages? I've read other questions that say that if you aren't constantly learning languages and open to all languages that you aren't in the right mindset for programming. I understand this and I still might not quite be getting it, but in truth, if a language isn't going to become mainstream, should I spend my time learning something else? I don't want to learn old (or any going to soon be old) programming languages. I know that many people see this as something important, *but would any of you ever actually consider (assuming you didn't already know) FORTRAN? My goal is to stay current to make sure I'm successful in the future. Disclaimer Yes, I am a young programmer, so I probably made a lot of naive statements in my question. Feel free to correct me on ANYTHING! I have to start learning somewhere so I'm sure a lot of my knowledge is sketchy enough to have caused to incorrect statements or flaws in my thinking. Please leave any feelings you have in the comments.

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  • Is it worth to learn Experimental Languages?

    - by Xander Lamkins
    I'm a young programmer who desires to work in the field someday as a programmer. I know Java, VB.NET and C#. I want to learn a new language (as I programmer, I know that it is valuable to extend what I know - to learn languages that make you think differently). I took a look online to see what languages were common. Everybody knows C and C++ (even those muggles who know so little about computers in general), so I thought, maybe I should push for C. C and C++ are nice but they are old. Things like Haskell and Forth (etc. etc. etc.) are old and have lost their popularity. I'm scared of learning C (or even C++) for this same reason. Java is pretty old as well and is slow because it's run by the JVM and not compiled to native code. I've been a Windows developer for quite a while. I recently started using Java - but only because it was more versatile and spreadable to other places. The problem is that it doesn't look like a very usable language for these reasons: It's most used purpose is for web application and cellphone apps (specifically Android) As far as actual products made with it, the only things that come to mind are Netbeans, Eclipse (hurrah for making and IDE with the language the IDE is for - it's like making a webpage for writing HTML/CSS/Javascript), and Minecraft which happens to be fun but laggy and bipolar as far as computer spec. support. Other than that it's used for servers but heck - I don't only want to make/configure servers. The .NET languages are nice, however: People laugh if I even mention VB.NET or C# in a serious conversation. It isn't cross-platform unless you use MONO (which is still in development and has some improvements to be made). Lacks low level stuff because, like Java with the JVM, it is run/managed by the CLR. My first thought was learning something like C and then using it to springboard into C++ (just to make sure I would have a strong understanding/base), but like I said earlier, it's getting older and older by the minute. What I've Looked Into Fantom looks nice. It's like a nice middleman between my two favorite languages and even lets me publish between the two interchangeably, but, unlike what I want, it compiles to the CLR or JVM (depending on what you publish it to) instead of it being a complete compile. D also looks nice. It seems like a very usable language and from multiple sources it appears to actually be better than C/C++. I would jump right with it, but I'm still unsure of its success because it obviously isn't very mainstream at this point. There are a couple others that looked pretty nice that focused on other things such as Opa with web development and Go by GOOGLE. My Question Is it worth learning these "experimental" languages? I've read other questions that say that if you aren't constantly learning languages and open to all languages that you aren't in the right mindset for programming. I understand this and I still might not quite be getting it, but in truth, if a language isn't going to become mainstream, should I spend my time learning something else? I don't want to learn old (or any going to soon be old) programming languages. I know that many people see this as something important, *but would any of you ever actually consider (assuming you didn't already know) FORTRAN? My goal is to stay current to make sure I'm successful in the future. Disclaimer Yes, I am a young programmer, so I probably made a lot of naive statements in my question. Feel free to correct me on ANYTHING! I have to start learning somewhere so I'm sure a lot of my knowledge is sketchy enough to have caused to incorrect statements or flaws in my thinking. Please leave any feelings you have in the comments.

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  • Are non Turing-complete languages considered programming languages at all?

    - by user1598390
    Reading a recent question: Is it actually possible to have a 'useful' programming language that isn't Turing complete?, I've come to wonder if non Turing-complete programming languages are considered programming languages at all. Since Turing-completeness means a language has to have variables to store values as well as control structures ( for, while )... Is a language that lacks these features considered a programming language ?

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  • Does your programming knowledge decrease if you don't practice?

    - by Codereview
    I'm a beginner programmer, I study languages such as C/C++/Python and Java (Mainly focused on C++). I'm What you'd call "Young and inexperienced" and I admit that because I can't claim otherwise. As a student I have many other problems besides programming.I practice programming as often as I can, and especially because my teacher gives me a lot more exercises than the rest of the class (It's a very low level), so oftentimes I spend weeks doing something else such as school projects or sports, or travelling, anything besides programming. Don't get me wrong though, I love programming, I love to build functional code, to watch as a program comes alive at the push of a button and to learn as much as I can - I simply don't have much time for it. Straight to the question, now: does your programming knowledge decrease as time passes and you don't practice? You may ask "How much time do you mean?". I don't mean a specific amount of time, but for reference you could take a month-two or even a year as an example. By knowledge I mean anything: From syntax to language functionality.

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  • Is there a "golden ratio" in coding?

    - by badallen
    My coworkers and I often come up with silly ideas such as adding entries to Urban Dictionary that are inappropriate but completely make sense if you are a developer. Or making rap songs that are about delegates, reflections or closures in JS... Anyhow, here is what I brought up this afternoon which was immediately dismissed to be a stupid idea. So I want to see if I can get redemptions here. My idea is coming up with a Golden Ratio (or in the neighborhood of) between the number of classes per project versus the number of methods/functions per class versus the number of lines per method/function. I know this is silly and borderline, if not completely, useless, but just think of all the legacy methods or classes you have encountered that are absolutely horrid - like methods with 10000 lines or classes with 10000 methods. So Golden Ratio, anyone? :)

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  • Are there any non-english programming languages? [closed]

    - by samarudge
    Possible Duplicate: Non-English-based programming languages Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but I'm going to anyway. Without fail, every programming language I've ever seen, used or heard of has it's keywords based around English. if, else, while, for, query, foreach, image, path, extension, the list goes on, are all based around English words. Are there any languages, or ports of languages that base their core keywords based on non-english words to lower the wall for non-english speaking programmers? This is mostly for intrest (English is my first language so it's no problem for me). Are these languages popular locally (I.E. might a software development house in Germany use a programming language based in German over one based in English).

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  • Is it worth being computer languages polyglot?

    - by Anton Barkowski
    You can often hear that programmers should learn many different languages to improve themselves. I still go to school and don't have big programming experience (a little more than year). But what was noble intention to improve programming skills turned into some kind of OCD: I feel that I won't calm down until I learn all relatively known programming languages. And here is question itself: Will being programming languages polyglot actually help you (And I don't mean usual "Programmer should know at least all paradigms", I mean really all languages you usually hear about)? Does anybody have similar experience? Does it help with job/skills/career? How often are you able to apply those skills?

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  • Design patterns and multiple programming languages

    - by Eduard Florinescu
    I am referring here to the design patterns found in the GOF book. First, how I see it, there are a few peculiarities to design pattern and knowing multiple languages, for example in Java you really need a singleton but in Python you can do without it you write a module, I saw somewhere a wiki trying to write all GOF patterns for JavaScript and all the entries were empty, I guess because it might be a daunting task to do that adaptation. If there is someone who is using design patterns and is programming multiple languages supporting the OOP paradigm and can give me a hint on how should I approach design patterns. An approach that might help me in all languages I use(Java, JavaScript, Python, Ruby): Can I write good application without knowing exactly the GOF design patterns or I might need just some of them which might be crucial and if yes which one, are there alternatives to GOF for specific languages, and should a programmer or a team make their own design patterns set?

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  • Are all languages basically the same?

    - by Anirudh
    Recently, i had to understand the design of a small program written in a language i had no idea about (ABAP, if you must know). I could figure it out without too much difficulty. I realize that mastering a new language is a completely different ball game, but purely understanding the intent of code (specifically production standard code, which is not necessarily complex) in any language is straight forward, if you already know a couple of languages (preferably one procedural/OO and one functional). Is this generally true? Are all programming languages made up of similar constructs like loops, conditional statements and message passing between functions? Are there non-esoteric languages that a typical Java/Ruby/Haskell programmer would not be able to make sense of? Do all languages have a common origin?

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  • How many types of programming languages are there?

    - by sova
    Basically, I want to learn lots of programming languages to become a great programmer. I know only a handful to depth and I was hoping someone could elaborate on how many classes or types of programming languages there are. Like how you would lump them together if you had to learn them in groups. Coming from a Java background, I'm familiar with static typing, but I know that in addition to dynamic typing there has to be such variety in available languages that I would love to see a categorical breakdown if possible.

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  • Why do "Joke" programming languages exist? [closed]

    - by ThePlan
    First of all please be aware this post contains some abusive language but I hope it will not bother anyone. I apologize for the bad language but that's what the name is. As I've been doing documentation on existing programming languages attempting to make a complete list of them I stumbled across terrible programming languages, which were clearly not made for actual use and implementation due to their insane difficulty. Languages such as Brainfu*k and LOLCODE or Whitespace are fool languages because they have no real use. For example, a "Hello world" program written in BrainFu*k. Taken from Wikipedia: The following program prints "Hello World!" and a newline to the screen: +++++ +++++ initialize counter (cell #0) to 10 [ use loop to set the next four cells to 70/100/30/10 > +++++ ++ add 7 to cell #1 > +++++ +++++ add 10 to cell #2 > +++ add 3 to cell #3 > + add 1 to cell #4 <<<< - decrement counter (cell #0) ] > ++ . print 'H' > + . print 'e' +++++ ++ . print 'l' . print 'l' +++ . print 'o' > ++ . print ' ' << +++++ +++++ +++++ . print 'W' > . print 'o' +++ . print 'r' ----- - . print 'l' ----- --- . print 'd' > + . print '!' > . print '\n' or another example taken from LOLCODE language: HAI CAN HAS STDIO? PLZ OPEN FILE "LOLCATS.TXT"? AWSUM THX VISIBLE FILE O NOES INVISIBLE "ERROR!" KTHXBYE These languages are very difficult to learn/read/work with. My question is - Why do they exist? What is the purpose of them? Also, is there an official "name" for these type of languages?

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  • Suggestions for Future or On-The-Edge Languages (2011)

    - by Kurtis
    I'm just looking for some suggestions on newer languages and language implementations that are useful for string manipulation. It's now 2011 and a lot has changed over the years. Most of my work includes web development (which is mostly text-based) and command line scripting. I'm pretty language agnostic, although I've felt violated using PHP over the years. My only requirements are that the language be good at text manipulation, without a lot of 3rd party libraries (core libraries are okay, though), and that the language and/or standard implementation is very up to date or even "futuristic". For example, the two main languages I'm looking at right now are Python (Version 3.x) or Perl (Version 6.x). Research, Academic, and Experimental languages are okay with me. I don't mind functional languages although I'd like to have the option of programming in a procedural or even object oriented manner. Thanks!

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  • Programming Constructs History

    - by kunjaan
    I need some help in figuring out which language introduced the constructs that we use everyday. For example: Constructs Introduced from LISP If-Else Block :"The ubiquitous if-then-else structure, now taken for granted as an essential element of any programming language, was invented by McCarthy for use in Lisp, where it saw its first appearance in a more general form (the cond structure). It was inherited by Algol, which popularized it. " - WikiPedia Function Type : Functions as first class citizens. Garbage Collection

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  • Comparison of Extreme Programming (XP) to Traditional Programming Methodologies

    The comparison of extreme programming (XP) to traditional programming methodologies can find similarities between the historic biblical battle between David and Goliath. Goliath of Gath is a Philistine warrior renowned for his size, strength and battle tested skills. Much like Goliath, traditional methodologies are known to be cumbersome due to large amounts of documentation, and time consuming do to the time needed to gather all the information. However, traditional methodologies have been widely accepted by the software development community for years because of its attention to detail regarding project development and maintenance. David is a male Israelite teenager, who was small, fearless, and untrained in any type of formal combat. In a similar fashion, extreme programming focuses more on code over documentation so that time is spent on developing the project and not on cumbersome documentation of a project. Typically, project managers and developers are fearless when they start this type of project because they usually start with little to no documentation, and they expect to be given changes to be implemented at the start of every new project iteration. Because of the lack of need or desire for documentation in extreme programming projects they appear to act as if there is no formal process involved in developing an extreme programming project.  This is a misnomer, because of the consistent development iterations and interaction with clients and users the quickly takes form because each iteration allows the project to be refined as the customer needs and desires change. Ravikant Agarwal and David Umphress documented a new approach to extreme programming called personal extreme programming (PXP) at the ACM Southeast Regional Conference in 2008. PXP is the application of extreme programming core concepts in a single developer team environment.  PXP focuses on how to adjust the main concepts and practices of extreme programming that is typically centered in a group environment and how they can be altered to be beneficial for a single developer environment. Suzanne Smith and Sara Stoecklin are both advocates of extreme programming according to the Journal of Computing Sciences in Colleges and in fact they feel that it should receive more attention in introductory programming classes to allow students to better understand the software development process. Reasons why extreme programming is a good thing: Developers get to do more of what they love, Develop. Traditional software development methodologies tend to  add additional demands on a project by requiring all requirements and project specifications to be fully defined prior to the start of the implementation phase of a project. A standard 40 hour work week. With limiting the work week to only 40 hours prevents developers from getting burned out on projects.

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  • Programming knowledge vs. programming logic

    - by Shirish11
    Is there any difference between the two topics? I have seen companies asking for Good Programming knowledge some Good Programming logic. I believe that Programming knowledge is related to knowledge about the language in consideration and Programming logic is problem solving logic using programming (in general). Please correct me if I am wrong. Also what is more important. Edit: Do selection of components for application, designing interfaces validating user inputs fall under programming knowledge or Programming logic? Does programming logic simply imply problem solving, or is there anything else which it should comprise of?

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  • Which Programming Languages Support the Following Features?

    - by donalbain
    My personal programming background is mainly in Java, with a little bit of Ruby, a tiny bit of Scheme, and most recently, due to some iOS development, Objective-C. In my move from Java to Objective-C I've really come to love some features that Objective-C has that Java doesn't. These include support for both static and dynamic typing, functional programming, and closures, which I'm trying to leverage in my code more often. Unfortunately there are trade-offs, including lack of support for generics and (on iOS at least) no garbage collection. These contrasts have lead me to start a search for some of the programming languages that support the following features: Object Oriented Functional Programming Support Closures Generics Support for both Static and Dynamic Typing Module Management to avoid classpath/dll hell Garbage Collection Available Decent IDE Support Admittedly some of these features(IDE support, Module Management) may not be specific to the language itself, but obviously influence the ease of development in the language. Which languages fit these criteria?

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  • How to diagram custom programming languages, non textual?

    - by Adam
    I've used and created domain-specific languages before, plenty of times (e.g. using yacc/lex). Normally we'd start with grammar written in BNF, and a bunch of keywords. This is easy to do, easy to share. Recently, I've started working with diagrammatic programming languages - closest parallel is circuit-diagrams in electronics, where it's very difficult to express ideas in text, but very easy to express them in wiring-diagrams. This is a new and novel problem for me: how to efficiently express these mini-languages, and share concepts in them with colleagues? (i.e. how to whiteboard-program within them. Actual programming is easy - you have physical components to hand) Are there tools for this? Or good/best practices (e.g. equivalent of "always use BNF as starting point for your new DSL, and use tools like yacc to generate the parser, compiler, etc"). My googlefu is proving weak - all I get is false positives for wiring diagrams, and UML editors (since these are custom languages, UML doesn't seem to help)

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  • How to better start learning programming - with imperative or declarative languages?

    - by user712092
    Someone is interested in learning to program. What language paradigm should I recomend him - imperative or declarative? And what programming language should he start with? I think that declarative because it is closer to math. And I would say that Prolog might be the best start because it is based on logic and programs are short. On the other hand at school we started learning from imperative languages and I am not sure whether there is a benefit to start with them instead of declarive ones. Thanks. :)

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  • Why are there different programming languages [closed]

    - by Velizar Hristov
    I'm not asking about the usefulness of the languages that do exist already: I already know, and agree, that different languages are better for different purposes. However, why don't they just have a single language that can do it all? Why, when C# was created, they didn't keep everything from C and C++ and just add a few things, so that it can be used as both a low-level and high-level language? I see no harm in adding all kinds of commands to a single language that would allow it to be good for everything, and even eliminate the need for all other languages. Someone from another thread said that if there's a flaw in a certain language, its successor might not have it. However, why don't we just update that language to remove the flaw, and/or add anything that's missing? Arrays are different in Java and C#, but why not have them both, just use different commands for them? And so on...

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  • What are the differences between programming languages? [closed]

    - by Omega
    Once upon a time, I heard from someone the only difference between programming languages is the syntax I wanted to deny it - to say that there are other fundamental aspects that truly set a language apart from others than just syntax. But I couldn't... So, can you? Whenever I search Google for something like "differences between programming languages", the results tend to be debates between two specific languages (I'd like something more general) - however, some of the aspects that people seemed to debate the most were: Object-Oriented Method/Operator overloading (I actually see this rather related to syntax) Garbage-Collection (While it seems like a good difference, for some reason it doesn't seem that "fundamental") What important aspects other than syntax can you think of?

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  • What could be my path? Networking, programming, or something else?

    - by momong
    Well first and foremost, I would like to give my brief description: I was an aviation student but I didn't pursue that path because I lost my interest. Now I'm an I.T. student and currently stopped schooling because of confusion. I don't know which path I should choose: could it be programming or networking? Someone told me that on networking the money is easy, the job is easy. Others told me that programming is best suited for me because I'm very skilled and excellent at figures. I want to chose networking, but I can't find my passion for it, my mind tells me but my heart doesn't... and on programming, I don't know which language I should pick or if I like it or not. A good mentor, even if only online, would be a very big plus to me, but I don't think if there are many who could spent their time on teaching a nobody... but I'm very eager to learn. My real passion is gaming! I want to work in the gaming industry, I want to be a man behind those games! I've been a gamer freak since birth. But I don't know how to get in to that industry. I don't know what to do. I don't know which path would really suit me. Sorry if some of you find this a pointless question, but please bear with me, this could be the turn of my life.

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  • Programming Language, Turing Completeness and Turing Machine

    - by Amumu
    A programming language is said to be Turing Completeness if it can successfully simulate a universal TM. Let's take functional programming language for example. In functional programming, function has highest priority over anything. You can pass functions around like any primitives or objects. This is called first class function. In functional programming, your function does not produce side effect i.e. output strings onto screen, change the state of variables outside of its scope. Each function has a copy of its own objects if the objects are passed from the outside, and the copied objects are returned once the function finishes its job. Each function written purely in functional style is completely independent to anything outside of it. Thus, the complexity of the overall system is reduced. This is referred as referential transparency. In functional programming, each function can have its local variables kept its values even after the function exits. This is done by the garbage collector. The value can be reused the next time the function is called again. This is called memoization. A function usually should solve only one thing. It should model only one algorithm to answer a problem. Do you think that a function in a functional language with above properties simulate a Turing Machines? Functions (= algorithms = Turing Machines) are able to be passed around as input and returned as output. TM also accepts and simulate other TMs Memoization models the set of states of a Turing Machine. The memorized variables can be used to determine states of a TM (i.e. which lines to execute, what behavior should it take in a give state ...). Also, you can use memoization to simulate your internal tape storage. In language like C/C++, when a function exits, you lose all of its internal data (unless you store it elsewhere outside of its scope). The set of symbols are the set of all strings in a programming language, which is the higher level and human-readable version of machine code (opcode) Start state is the beginning of the function. However, with memoization, start state can be determined by memoization or if you want, switch/if-else statement in imperative programming language. But then, you can't Final accepting state when the function returns a value, or rejects if an exception happens. Thus, the function (= algorithm = TM) is decidable. Otherwise, it's undecidable. I'm not sure about this. What do you think? Is my thinking true on all of this? The reason I bring function in functional programming because I think it's closer to the idea of TM. What experience with other programming languages do you have which make you feel the idea of TM and the ideas of Computer Science in general? Can you specify how you think?

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