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  • What are some of the benefits of a "Micro-ORM"?

    - by Wayne M
    I've been looking into the so-called "Micro ORMs" like Dapper and (to a lesser extent as it relies on .NET 4.0) Massive as these might be easier to implement at work than a full-blown ORM since our current system is highly reliant on stored procedures and would require significant refactoring to work with an ORM like NHibernate or EF. What is the benefit of using one of these over a full-featured ORM? It seems like just a thin layer around a database connection that still forces you to write raw SQL - perhaps I'm wrong but I was always told the reason for ORMs in the first place is so you didn't have to write SQL, it could be automatically generated; especially for multi-table joins and mapping relationships between tables which are a pain to do in pure SQL but trivial with an ORM. For instance, looking at an example of Dapper: var connection = new SqlConnection(); // setup here... var person = connection.Query<Person>("select * from people where PersonId = @personId", new { PersonId = 42 }); How is that any different than using a handrolled ADO.NET data layer, except that you don't have to write the command, set the parameters and I suppose map the entity back using a Builder. It looks like you could even use a stored procedure call as the SQL string. Are there other tangible benefits that I'm missing here where a Micro ORM makes sense to use? I'm not really seeing how it's saving anything over the "old" way of using ADO.NET except maybe a few lines of code - you still have to write to figure out what SQL you need to execute (which can get hairy) and you still have to map relationships between tables (the part that IMHO ORMs help the most with).

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  • Creating a layer of abstraction over the ORM layer

    - by Daok
    I believe that if you have your repositories use an ORM that it's already enough abstracted from the database. However, where I am working now, someone believe that we should have a layer that abstract the ORM in case that we would like to change the ORM later. Is it really necessary or it's simply a lot of over head to create a layer that will work on many ORM? Edit Just to give more detail: We have POCO class and Entity Class that are mapped with AutoMapper. Entity class are used by the Repository layer. The repository layer then use the additional layer of abstraction to communicate with Entity Framework. The business layer has in no way a direct access to Entity Framework. Even without the additional layer of abstraction over the ORM, this one need to use the service layer that user the repository layer. In both case, the business layer is totally separated from the ORM. The main argument is to be able to change ORM in the future. Since it's really localized inside the Repository layer, to me, it's already well separated and I do not see why an additional layer of abstraction is required to have a "quality" code.

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  • Best arguments for/against introducing ORM technology into a companies dev process

    - by james
    I have started using ORM technology in the last few years. My first exposure was NHibernate. I then moved onto Linq 2 Sql, and Entity Framework. The issue I have however is, there are some organisations where I have found strong opposition to introducing ORM tools. They usually have a number of reasons: they have a lot of built up SQL skills in the team, and are worried about the underlying SQL that ORM's generate. they have DBA's who like to be able to see the SQL an app uses in order that can review it for best practice. they are worried about performance (some people have "heard" the ORM's aren't as performant but have no real proof themselves - there may well be some truth in this! :). So, I'm looking for the best or most convincing arguments that you have put forward FOR the use of ORM tools. Equally, I would be interested in the against arguments too. Note: this is NOT a discussion over which ORM I should use.

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  • Non-blocking ORM issues

    - by Nikolay Fominyh
    Once I had question on SO, and found that there are no non-blocking ORMs for my favorite framework. I mean ORM with callback support for asynchronous retrieval. The ORM would be supplied with a callback or some such to "activate" when data has been received. Otherwise ORM needs to be split of in a separate thread to guarantee UI responsiveness. I want to create one, but I have some questions that blocking me from starting development: What issues we can meet when developing ORM? Does word "non-blocking" before word "ORM" will dramatically increase complexity of ORM? Why there are not much non-blocking ORMs around? Update: It looks, that I have to improve my question. We have solutions that already allows us to receive data in non-blocking way. And I believe that not all companies that use such solutions - using raw SQL. We want to create more generic solution, that we can reuse in future projects. What difficulties we can meet?

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  • Example of persisting an inheritance relationship using ORM

    - by Schemer
    I have some experience with OOP and RDBs, but very little exposure to web programming. I am trying to understand what non-trivial types of problems are solved by ORM. Of course, I am familiar with the need for data persistence, but I have never encountered a need for persisting relationships between objects, a situation which is indicated in many online articles about ORM. I am not asking about the process of persisting a POJO to a database and restoring it later. Nor am I asking about why ORM frameworks are useful -- or a pain in the butt -- for doing so. I am particularly interested in how the need arises to persist and restore relationships between objects. In various documentation, I have seen many examples of persisting POJOs to a database, but the examples have all been for only very simple objects that are essentially nothing more than records anyway: a constructor, some private fields, and getter/setter methods. The motivation for persisting such an "object-record" seems obvious and trivial. This example: Hibernate ORM Tutorial offers such an example, but goes on to discuss mismatch issues of granularity, inheritance, identity, associations, and navigation that are not motivated by the example. If someone could offer a toy example of an instance where, say, the need arises to persist an inheritance relationship, I would be grateful. This might be blindingly obvious for anyone who has already encountered this situation but I have not and a great deal of searching and reading have not turned up any examples.

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  • Is ORM an Anti-Pattern?

    - by derphil
    I had a very stimulating and interessting discussion with a colleague about ORM and it's Pros and Cons. In my opinion, an ORM is useful only in the rarest cases. At least in my experience. But I don't want to list my own arguments at this time. So I ask you, what do you think about ORM? What are the Pros and the Cons? P.S. I've posted this "question" yesterday on Stackoverflow, but some of the user think, that this should better posted here.

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  • ResourceSerializable: an alternate to ORM and ActiveRecord

    - by Levi Morrison
    A few opinionated reasons I don't like the traditional ORM and ActiveRecord patterns: They work only with a database. Sometimes I'm dealing with objects from an API and other objects from a database. All the implementations I have seen don't allow for that. Feel free to clue me in if I'm wrong on this. They are brittle. Changes in the database will likely break your implemenation. Some implementations can help reduce this, but a few of the ones I've seen don't. Their very design is influenced by the database. If I want to switch to using an API, I'll have to redesign the object to get it to work (likely). It seems to violate the single-responsibility pattern. They know what they are and how they act, but they also know how they are created, destroyed and saved? Seems a bit much. What about an approach that is somewhat more familiar in PHP: implementing an interface? In php 5.4, we'll have the JsonSerializable interface that defines the data to be json_encoded, so users will become accustomed to this type of thing. What if there was a ResourceSerializable interface? This is still an ORM by name, but certainly not by tradition. interface ResourceSerializable { /** * Returns the id that identifies the resource. */ function resourceId(); /** * Returns the 'type' of the resource. */ function resourceType(); /** * Returns the data to be serialized. */ function resourceSerialize(); } Things might be poorly named, I'll take suggestions. Notes: ResourceId will work for API's and databases. As long as your primary key in the database is the same as the resource ID in the API, there is no conflict. All of the API's I've worked with have a unique ID for the resource, so I don't see any issues there. ResourceType is the group or type associated with the resource. You can use this to map the resource to an API call or a database table. If the ResourceType was person, it could map to /api/1/person/{resourceId} and the table persons (or people, if it's smart enough). resourceSerialize() returns the data to be stored. Keys would identify API parameters and database table columns. This also seems easier to test than ActiveRecord / Orm implemenations. I haven't done much automated testing on traditional ActiveRecord/ORM implemenations, so this is merely a guess. But it seems that I being able to create objects independently of the library helps me. I don't have to use load() to get an existing resource, I can simply create one and set all the right properties. This is not so easy in the ActiveRecord / Orm implemenations I've dealt with. Downsides: You need another object to serialize it. This also means you have more code in general as you have to use more objects. You have to map resource types to API calls and database tables. This is even more work, but some ORMs and ActiveRecord implementations require you to map objects to table names anyway. Are there other downsides that you see? Does this seem feasible to you? How would you improve it? Note: I almost asked this on StackOverflow because it might be too vague for their standards, but I'm still not really familiar with programmers.stackexchange.com, so please help me improve my question if it doesn't shape up to standards here.

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  • Kohana 3 ORM - grouping where conditions with parentheses

    - by Greelmo
    I'm trying to run a query through the ORM like this: SELECT * from table where (fname like 'string%' or lname like 'string%') AND (fname like 'string2%' or lname like 'string2%'); Here's what i have so far: $results = ORM::factory('profiles'); foreach ($strings as $string) { $result->where('fname', 'like', "$string%"); $result->or_where('lname', 'like', "$string%"); } But this doesn't account for the parentheses. Any ideas?

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  • Which simple Java JPA ORM tool to use ?

    - by Guillaume
    What Java ORM library implementing JPA that match following criteria would you recommend and why ? free & open source alive (at least bug fixes and a mailing list) with good documentation simple not hibernate (this one is well-known :-) ) I need to select a simple ORM tool that can be set up in minutes without and easy to understand for setting simple CRUD daos. A query builder ill be an interesting plus. Later I can have to move to Hibernate, that's why being JPA compliant is a must. I have found some candidates on the web, but not so much feedback, so I will gladly take your advices on the topic. ----- EDIT --------- I have been successfully testing ebean/avaje with a small test cases. Any one has a feedback on using this tool in production ?

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  • Which simple Java JPA ORM tool to use ?

    - by Guillaume
    What Java ORM library implementing JPA that match following criteria would you recommend and why ? free & open source alive (at least bug fixes and a mailing list) with good documentation simple (simpler than hibernate) I need to select a simple ORM tool that can be set up in minutes, without too much configuration and easy to understand, for setting simple CRUD DAOs. A query builder will be an interesting plus. Later I can have to move to Hibernate, that's why being JPA compliant is a must. I have found some candidates on the web, but not so much feedback, so I will gladly take your advices on the topic. ----- EDIT --------- I have been successfully testing ebean/avaje with a small test cases. Any one has a feedback on using these tools in production ?

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  • Can this be done with the ORM? - Django

    - by RadiantHex
    Hi folks, I have a few item listed in a database, ordered through Reddit's algorithm. This is it: def reddit_ranking(post): t = time.mktime(post.created_on.timetuple()) - 1134000000 x = post.score if x>0: y=1 elif x==0: y=-0 else: y=-1 if x<0: z=1 else: z=x return (log(z) + y * t/45000) I'm wondering if there is any clever way of using Django's ORM, in order to UPDATE the models in bulk. Without doing this: items = Item.objects.filter(created_on__gte=datetime.now()-timedelta(days=7)) for item in items: item.reddit_rank = reddit_rank(item) item.save() I know about the F() object, but I can't figure out if this function can be performed inside the ORM. Any ideas? Help would be very much appreciated!

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  • Increased CF JVM max heap size and now CF service will not start

    - by Erik Vold
    So I went in to ColdFusion Administrator and increased my CF JVM max heap size, then I was told I would need to restart the service, so I stopped the service, and then tried to start it again and got the following error message: Windows could not start the ColdFusion 8 Application Server on Local Computer. For more information, review the System Event Log. If this is a non-Microsoft service, contact the service vendor, and refer to service-specific error code 2. So I went to the Event Viewer application, then took a look at the Application log and saw an error that said: The ColdFusion 8 Application Server service could not be started. Check the server "coldfusion" log files for more information. So I went to my ColdFusion logs directory opened the server.log log file and I don't see anything useful in there or any of the other log files.. Any idea how I can change the JVM heap size back to what it was so that I can start CF again?

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  • ORM and component-based architecture

    - by EagleBeek
    I have joined an ongoing project, where the team calls their architecture "component-based". The lowest level is one big database. The data access (via ORM) and business layers are combined into various components, which are separated according to business logic. E.g., there's a component for handling bank accounts, one for generating invoices, etc. The higher levels of service contracts and presentation are irrelevant for the question, so I'll omit them here. From my point of view the separation of the data access layer into various components seems counterproductive, because it denies us the relational mapping capabilities of the ORM. E.g., when I want to query all invoices for one customer I have to identify the customer with the "customers" component and then make another call to the "invoices" component to get the invoices for this customer. My impression is that it would be better to leave the data access in one component and separate it from business logic, which may well be cut into various components. Does anybody have some advice? Have I overlooked something?

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  • Kohana ORM get one record in many-to-many relationship

    - by booze2go
    Hi Guys, I've got two tables (items / tags). Item has and belongs to many tags - tag has and belongs to many items. It's no problem for me to fetch all related tags like: $item = ORM::factory('item', 4); foreach($item->tags as $tag){....} But how can i fetch only one... and maybe a specific one? Thanks in advance!

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  • ORM Profiler v1.1 has been released!

    - by FransBouma
    We've released ORM Profiler v1.1, which has the following new features: Real time profiling A real time viewer (RTV) has been added, which gives insight in the activity as it is received by the client, in two views: a chronological connection overview and an activity graph overview. This RTV allows the user to directly record to a snapshot using record buttons, pause the view, mark a range to create a snapshot from that range, and view graphs about the # of connection open actions and # of commands per second. The RTV has a 'range' in which it keeps live data and auto-cleans data that's older than this range. Screenshot of the activity graphs part of the real-time viewer: Low-level activity tab A new tab has been added to the Application tabs: the Low-level activity tab. This tab shows the main activity as it has been received over the named pipe. It can help to get insight in the chronological activity without the grouping over connections, so multiple connections at the same time per thread are easier to spot. Clicking a command will sync the rest of the application tabs, clicking a row will show the details below the splitter bar, as it is done with the other application tabs as well. Default application name in interceptor When an empty string or null is passed for application name to the Initialize method of the interceptor, the AppDomain's friendly name is used instead. Copy call stack to clipboard A call stack viewed in a grid in various parts of the UI is now copyable to the clipboard by clicking a button. Enable/Disable interceptor from the config file It's now possible to enable/disable the interceptor Initialization from the application's config file, using: Code: <appSettings> <add key="ORMProfilerEnabled" value="true"/> </appSettings> if value is true, the interceptor's Initialize method will proceed. If the value is false, the interceptor's Initialize method will not proceed and initialization won't be performed, meaning no interception will take place. If the setting is absent, or misconfigured, the Initialize method will proceed as normal and perform the initialization. Stored procedure calls for select databases are now properly displayed as a call For the databases: SQL Server, Oracle, DB2, Sybase ASA, Sybase ASE and Informix a stored procedure call is displayed as an execute/call statement and copy to clipboard works as-is. I'm especially happy with the new real-time profiling feature in ORM Profiler, which is the flagship feature for this release: it offers a completely new way to use the profiler, namely directly during debugging: you can immediately see what's going on without the necessity of a snapshot. The activity graph feature combined with the auto-cleanup of older data, allows you to keep the profiler open for a long period of time and see any spike of activity on the profiled application.

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  • In Search of Automatic ORM with REST interface

    - by Dan Ray
    I have this wish that so far Google hasn't been able to fulfill. I want to find a package (ideally in PHP, because I know PHP, but I guess that's not a hard requirement) that you point at a database, it builds an ORM based on what it finds there, and exposes a REST interface over the web. Everything I've found in my searches requires a bunch of code--like, it wants you to build the classes for it, but it'll handle the REST request routing. Or it does database and relational stuff just fine, but you have to build your own methods for all the CRUD actions. That's dumb. REST is well defined. If I wanted to re-invent the wheel, I totally could, but I don't want to. Isn't there somebody who's built a one-shot super-simple auto-RESTing web service package?

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  • PHP ORM style of querying

    - by Petah
    Ok so I have made an ORM library for PHP. It uses syntax like so: *(assume that $business_locations is an array)* Business::type(Business:TYPE_AUTOMOTIVE)-> size(Business::SIZE_SMALL)-> left_join(BusinessOwner::table(), BusinessOwner::business_id(), SQL::OP_EQUALS, Business::id())-> left_join(Owner::table(), SQL::OP_EQUALS, Owner::id(), BusinessOwner::owner_id())-> where(Business::location_id(), SQL::in($business_locations))-> group_by(Business::id())-> select(SQL::count(BusinessOwner::id()); Which can also be represented as: $query = new Business(); $query->set_type(Business:TYPE_AUTOMOTIVE); $query->set_size(Business::SIZE_SMALL); $query->left_join(BusinessOwner::table(), BusinessOwner::business_id(), SQL::OP_EQUALS, $query->id()); $query->left_join(Owner::table(), SQL::OP_EQUALS, Owner::id(), BusinessOwner::owner_id()); $query->where(Business::location_id(), SQL::in($business_locations)); $query->group_by(Business::id()); $query->select(SQL::count(BusinessOwner::id()); This would produce a query like: SELECT COUNT(`business_owners`.`id`) FROM `businesses` LEFT JOIN `business_owners` ON `business_owners`.`business_id` = `businesses`.`id` LEFT JOIN `owners` ON `owners`.`id` = `business_owners`.`owner_id` WHERE `businesses`.`type` = 'automotive' AND `businesses`.`size` = 'small' AND `businesses`.`location_id` IN ( 1, 2, 3, 4 ) GROUP BY `businesses`.`id` Please keep in mind that the syntax might not be prefectly correct (I only wrote this off the top of my head) Any way, what do you think of this style of querying? Is the first method or second better/clearer/cleaner/etc? What would you do to improve it?

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  • Benchmarking ORM associations

    - by barerd
    I am trying to benchmark two cases of self referential many to many as described in datamapper associations. Both cases consist of an Item clss, which may require many other items. In both cases, I required the ruby benchmark library and source file, created two items and benchmarked require/unrequie functions as below: Benchmark.bmbm do |x| x.report("require:") { item_1.require_item item_2, 10 } x.report("unrequire:") { item_1.unrequire_item item_2 } end To be clear, both functions are datamapper add/modify functions like: componentMaps.create :component_id => item.id, :quantity => quantity componentMaps.all(:component_id => item.id).destroy! and links_to_components.create :component_id => item.id, :quantity => quantity links_to_components.all(:component_id => item.id).destroy! The results are variable and in the range of 0.018001 to 0.022001 for require function in both cases, and 0.006 to 0.01 for unrequire function in both cases. This made me suspicious about the correctness of my test method. Edit I went ahead and compared a "get by primary key case" to a "finding first matching record case" by: (1..10000).each do |i| Item.create :name => "item_#{i}" end Benchmark.bmbm do |x| x.report("Get") { item = Item.get 9712 } x.report("First") { item = Item.first :name => "item_9712" } end where the results were very different like 0 sec compared to 0.0312, as expected. This suggests that the benchmarking works. I wonder whether I benchmarked the two types of associations correctly, and whether a difference between 0.018 and 0.022 sec significant?

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  • The advantages and disadvantages of using ORM

    - by JHarley1
    Good Morning, I would like to discuss today the advantages and disadvantages of using ORM (such as ADO.NET). Advantages: Speeds-up Development - eliminates the need for repetitive SQL code. Reduces Development Time. Reduces Development Costs. Overcomes vendor specific SQL differences - the ORM knows how to write vendor specific SQL so you don't have to. Disadvantages: Loss in developer productivity whilst they learn to program with ORM. Developers loose understanding of what the code is actually doing - the developer is more in control using SQL. ORM has a tendency to be slow. ORM fail to compete against SQL queries for complex queries. In summary, I believe that the disadvantages of using an ORM (mainly the reduced time taken to perform repetitive tasks) is far outweighed by the disadvantages of ORM e.g. its difficulty to get to grips with. Can people point out were I am going wrong and suggest any further advantages/disadvantages. Many Thanks, J

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  • Database Change Auditing - Part of or Abstracted from ORM / Application Layer?

    - by BrandonV
    My fellow developers and I are at a crossroads in how to go about continuing our auditing of database changes. Most of our applications log changes via INSERT, UPDATE, and DELETE triggers. A few of our newer applications audit at the ORM layer; specifically using Hibernate Envers. While ORM layer auditing provides a much cleaner interface and is much more maintainable, it will not capture any manual database changes that are made. ORM layer auditing also means that our libraries will currently require a dependency on our ORM implementation unless, specifically in our case for example, JPA plans on providing something in the near future. Is there a common paradigm that addresses this?

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  • ORM in the realworld

    - by josh
    I am begining a new project that i think will last for some years. Am in the point of deciding the ORM framework to use (or whether to use one at all). Can anyone with experience tell me whether orm frameworks are used in realworld applications. The problem i have in mind is this: The orm tool will generate for me tables and columns etc as i create and modify my entities. However, after the project has gone live and is in production, certain database changes will not be possible. Can this hinder the advancement of the project. If i had used a framework like ibatis for example, i know i would only need to adjust the sql statements based on the database changes. Can someone tell me whether ORM tools have survived the live environment. At my office, we use java based ERP that was done long ago and it was never done using any ORM framework. Regards. Josh

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  • what good orm api will work well with scala or erlang

    - by Emotu Balogun
    I'm considering taking up scala programming but i'm really concerned about what will become of my ORM based applications. I currently use hibernate as my ORM and i find it a really reliable tool. I'd like to know if there's any ORM tool as efficient but written in scala, or will hibernate work seamlessly with it. i don't want to have to start writing endless sql queries again (like the days of JDBC). I also have the same thought about erlang. is there a good orm out there for erlang?? and can i use erlang with other DBMS like oracle and mysql with ORM

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  • PHP: tips/resources/patterns for learning to implement a basic ORM

    - by BoltClock
    I've seen various MVC frameworks as well as standalone ORM frameworks for PHP, as well as other ORM questions here; however, most of the questions ask for existing frameworks to get started with, which is not what I'm looking for. (I have also read this SO question but I'm not sure what to make of it, and the answers are vague.) Instead, I figured I'd learn best by getting my hands dirty and actually writing my own ORM, even a simple one. Except I don't really know how to get started, especially since the code I see in other ORMs is so complicated. With my PHP 5.2.x (this is important) MVC framework I have a basic custom database abstraction layer, that has: Very simple methods like connect($host, $user, $pass, $base), query($sql, $binds), etc Subclasses for each DBMS that it supports A class (and respective subclasses) to represent SQL result sets But does not have: Active Record functionality, which I assume is an ORM thing (correct me if I'm wrong) I've read up a little about ORM, and from my understanding they provide a means to further abstract data models from the database itself by representing data as nothing more than PHP-based classes/objects; again, correct me if I am wrong or have missed out in any way. Still, I'd like some simple tips from anyone else who's dabbled more or less with ORM frameworks. Is there anything else I need to take note of, simple example code for me to refer to, or resources I can read? Thanks a lot in advance!

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  • cf3 Can't stat ... in files.copyfrom promise

    - by Xerxes
    On the client: # cf-agent -KIv ... cf3 -> Handling file existence constraints on /etc/cfengine3 cf3 -> Copy file /etc/cfengine3 from /srv/cfengine/sysconf/server/inputs check cf3 No existing connection to 172.31.69.83 is established... cf3 Set cfengine port number to 5308 = 5308 cf3 -> Connect to 172.31.69.83 = 172.31.69.83 on port 5308 cf3 LastSaw host 172.31.69.83 now cf3 Loaded /var/lib/cfengine3/ppkeys/root-172.31.69.83.pub cf3 .....................[.h.a.i.l.]................................. cf3 Strong authentication of server=172.31.69.83 connection confirmed cf3 Server returned error: Unspecified server refusal (see verbose server output) cf3 Can't stat /srv/cfengine/sysconf/server/inputs in files.copyfrom promise cf3 ?> defining promise result class Cfengine_Inputs_Updated_Failed .... cf3 ......................................................... cf3 Promise handle: cf3 Promise made by: [cf-agent.cf ] FAILED 172.31.69.83:///srv/cfengine/sysconf/server/inputs -> localhost:///etc/cfengine3 However, on the server (172.31.69.83), there's no reason why it can't stat the directory: cyrus:/srv/cfengine/sysconf/server# ls -l /srv/cfengine/sysconf/server/inputs total 52 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2142 Sep 6 21:54 cf-agent.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 831 Sep 6 18:31 cf-execd.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4517 Sep 6 21:44 cf-serverd.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3082 Sep 6 21:44 dns.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2028 Sep 6 15:12 failsafe.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5966 Sep 6 21:44 ldap-masters.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4380 Sep 6 18:31 ldap-security.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2735 Sep 6 08:21 lib-core.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1506 Sep 6 21:45 lib-utils.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2635 Sep 6 20:27 lib-vars.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2057 Sep 3 17:46 nss.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1472 Sep 6 18:31 packages.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1257 Sep 6 18:01 pam-security.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4019 Sep 6 19:32 promises.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2808 Sep 3 17:22 site.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1670 Sep 6 18:31 sudo-security.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 831 Sep 6 18:31 sys-security.cf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 890 Sep 6 18:31 sys-users.cf cyrus:/srv/cfengine/sysconf/server# I don't see anything interesting server side either when running: /usr/sbin/cf-serverd -d4 --verbose --no-fork And the following does not have any complaints: /usr/sbin/cf-promises -v Any ideas? I'm running cfengine3 on debian, v3.0.5+dfsg-1 - and the cf-agent.cf file is as follows: bundle agent Update { files: linux:: "${cf3.path[inputs]}" action => immediate, move_obstructions => "true", depth_search => Recursive, copy_from => MirrorFrom( "${cf3.host[server]}", "${cf3.path[scm-inputs]}", "true", "0400" ), classes => DefineSoftClass("Cfengine_Inputs_Updated") ; "${cf3.path[sbin]}" comment => "Setting cf3 client sbin scripts: ${cf3.path[sbin]}/", action => immediate, depth_search => Recursive, copy_from => MirrorFrom( "${cf3.host[server]}", "${cf3.path[scm-cnt-scripts]}", "false", "0555" ) ; reports: Cfengine_Inputs_Updated:: "[cf-agent.cf ] Services:CFAgent:Inputs:Updated"; Cfengine_Inputs_Updated_Failed:: "[cf-agent.cf ] FAILED ${cf3.host[server]}://${cf3.path[scm-inputs]} -> localhost://${cf3.path[inputs]}"; } I lie, there is something interesting with a little more debugging... AccessControl(/srv/cfengine/sysconf/server/inputs) AccessControl, match(/srv/cfengine/sysconf/server/inputs,client.com.au) encrypt request=1 Examining rule in access list (/srv/cfengine/sysconf/server/inputs,/home/cfengine)? cf3 Host client.com.au denied access to /srv/cfengine/sysconf/server/inputs Unappending Host client.com.au denied access to /srv/cfengine/sysconf/server/inputs cf3 Access control in sync Unappending Access control in sync Transaction Send[t 59][Packed text] Attempting to send 67 bytes SendSocketStream, sent 67 cf3 From (host=client.com.au,user=root,ip=172.31.69.3) Unappending From (host=client.com.au,user=root,ip=172.31.69.3) cf3 REFUSAL of request from connecting host: (SYNCH 1283777156 STAT /srv/cfengine/sysconf/server/inputs) Unappending REFUSAL of request from connecting host: (SYNCH 1283777156 STAT /srv/cfengine/sysconf/server/inputs) RecvSocketStream(8) cf3 -> Accepting a connection I'll keep looking.

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